https://youtu.be/DLulvSBBhiE?t=273
Video of the game timestamped.
So I keep seeing people say “convoke 1shot” in awc, but I’m watching the game, and I am really confused as to where people are getting that?
we see right before this happens, Cdew hoj’s kubzy and sam+trill overlap CS and incap on the cyclone. Chan then gets a free clone onto sam (who yolo trinketed a sheep 20s before???), because trill is sitting on Wealthyman. Cdew is standing in chan’s line and doesn’t pre-freedom the root beam, and kubzy hoj’s trill.
This creates a 3v0 situation in which chanimal incarn convokes (with trill being the only elligible target since cdew and sam are both in CC) and WEALTHYMAN METEOR COMBUSTS. Trill trinket diffuses at 1/2hp (convoke and combust btw) and a-d-a-ds in the meteor (i think he’s trying to tiger’s lust the root beam?) and cdew trinket sacrifices after getting out of the root beam. Cdew then dies to the sacrifice dot with wall, bubble, divine favor, and battlemaster available.
He has EVERY defensive available and even tweeted after the fact that he thought he pressed bubble (you can tell that he believes this because even though trill has ultimate sac, he tops trill with wings + hshock + wog).
In no way did convoke 1shot; it was channeled the FULL duration with all the damage going into one target while PAIRED WITH combust (which we see 1shot trill in every other game in the series; literally in the opener next game). This kill was brought about over a long period of time due to overlaps, positional errors, and not using defensives. It’s not a “lul rng 1shot”.
Convoke SHOULD GET NERFS specifically it’s full moon and first-1-second RNG (because it guarantees moon and starsurge crits for basically the first two seconds which are both DOUBLED from mastery). But this is not what’s happening here at all. I want convoke nerfed as much as anyone, but it’s important to use good examples; the AWC isn’t one of them.
Tbh you’re making a good point on the things that happen/happened but most people aren’t going to respond to it well
Convoke obviously CAN be really dumb but I don’t think they’d disagree it was more of a sloppy game which happens
Honestly though I think convokes true value is actually when games are kinda slower, feel like having the potential of getting a clean convoke really late in a game is actually nice, especially because some MUs can just be really mentally draining in tournaments
Is this to defend convoke? Not sure where you are going with it. But mistakes were made and it was cast and someone died. It’s 1 spell. Depending how you look at it, it is a 1-shot.
Most teams could have taken convoke off their bars. Just holding it prevented everyone else from getting kicked.
Probably true, but I’d still like to do my part to explain what I see in case it actually helps someone understand or improve. And if I’m wrong, then someone can absolutely call me out and then I learn.
I agree with this 100%, especially in tournament environments with all the pressure and long games.
It’s not at all defending convoke. I just want to accurately portray what happened and try to explain it so people could learn from it.
Like i said in the OP; convoke is silly, but if you want it to be nerfed and people to take you seriously, you have to use good examples. Not a 200+comment thread about this specific game where people are claiming “1shots”.
it isn’t though. It’s meteor + combust, 3x fb pyro and 2x phoenix flames + hpal judge and hammer + convoke.
There’s plenty of people out there with zero clue how PvP or classes work that complain.
200 words by someone calling it a 1 shot or 10 words by someone calling it a setup leads back to the same conclusion.
Convoke needs to be removed from PvP. So I don’t quite understand making a post about it. If all else your post just reiterated the amount of overkill in that setup.
I disagree; I think they lead to fundamentally different approaches. If I’m dying to a setup, I know i need to lookout for the precursors to the setup, be aware of when it’s occurring, and communicate with my team before the setup happens who is using what trinket/cc to disrupt the setup or pre-running to delay or disrupt.
Responding to a “1shot” is fundamentally different as it requires the usage of a defensive CD immediately as (or likely before) the damage occurs.
Being aware of the differences can help people understand how to better respond to something so they don’t lose to it in the future.
I think convoke absolutely needs a redesign, but the ability in and of itself is useless; it’s its synergy with the legendary and CA/incarn that make it strong. A small distinction, but an important one, because there is no world in which blizzard will redesign an ability this “late” in an expansion, and they’ve gone on record saying they’re not going to nerf the legendary that makes it so strong (they already did, and said they wont nerf it again). While they may throw a slap-on-the-wrist nerf to the conduit, the ability is here to stay for all of shadowlands, so people should learn to play around it now instead of throwing their hands up and saying “wow convoke op 1shot” when in reality there’s a lot of counterplay and stops to it.
Not even that. It’s a 2-min CD, so stills needs to feel like one.
Would prefer to have Full Moon removed from the spell bank, and if possible, reduced (or set a cap on) SS procs. Sometimes the RNG is a bit bonkers…
You think so? I’m skeptical. If they havent nerfed fire mage combust (which is just a better convoke because it has no RNG, can’t be interrupted, and is 1 minute CD instead of 3), I doubt they’ll nerf convoke. Also there are like half as many druids as any of the “top” melee and half of them are kyrian anyways so it’s not like it’s a real problem on the ladder below 1500.
I fought a really geared spriest balance team where i paralyzed his opening convoke about 0.5 seconds in and got him low health. His own ridiculous healing combined with the spriests healing and damage meant this dude was able to survive long enough to get off a second convoke and instantly delete me.
At the time i was 185 ilvl and just did not have the damage to kill a kiting and healing 210+ team.
The fact that when he casted his second convoke i died in the first 2 seconds after playing (ill pat my own back idc) very well for quite a while is very frustrating.
Could i have dropped him in better gear probably. But if anything it just highlights the massive gear and damage disparity atm
there is a cap on SSurge. It always casts ONLY three starsurges at random intervals in the 4s channel. But I agree that full moon shouldn’t be in the spell bank.
it isn’t a 2 minute cd, though. It really HAS to be paired with CA/Incarn to do anything, which makes it 3 minutes. Convoke by itself is super weak, but when paired with the legendary+conduit+incarn, it becomes multiplicatively bonkers. Nerfing the ability just makes it unplayable; the legendary (or incarn rework) is what needs to be targeted.
Oh for sure gear is relevant there. Moonkin are also bananas tanky, so it’s not like they have trouble living to a second incarn + convoke. I think that’s true against any team, though, where you’re down 25+ ilvls; you’re doing 25% less damage/healing and likely have 25% less hp also.
I agree that that’s a strong commentary on gear disparity, but that’s unfortunately part of wow
Just curious, what did you trinket/diffuse/karma/wall that you didnt have them for the second convoke?
You’re being reasonable Nasrajin instead of spouting the usual “heh just kick it bro” that we see from most of the BfA Destro rerolls.
Yeah, sloppy play on Cdew. Yeah, fire mage throwing ridiculous damage in too. Also yeah, full moon should be removed from the bank. Also possibly at least a .75 or 1s internal CD on star surge so you don’t get 3 back to back and just annihilate someone for no reason. That doesn’t break the PvE side of it and makes it less of a one sided RNG spell in arena.
It’s not the worst offender for oppressive damage, even with full moon, as firemage takes the cake there. It’s just an unfun ability to fight because you’re absolutely seeing some idiot druid press it randomly and get a full moon out of the gates and just obliterate someone for zero set up and zero effort. As a shaman I’m not really in the most danger against convoke thanks to shear and grounding, but on other toons I know how frustrating it can be to stop it without a 30yard interrupt or grounding available.
