Outlaw should be getting a rework treatment just like Hunter and Paladin got, I say this because when you look at the talent tree in the Outlaw Spec it has many useless and tasteless talents that just increase damage or increase energy regeneration or increase movement speed. These talents bloat at least 70% of the tree. The tree needs to be revisited.
If this does happen I’d suggest just converting Outlaw to a full time mid ranger spec and convert abilities such as Ambush to a 25 yd Hip Shot and Dispatch into a 25 yd Double Barrel Flair and also making Blade Flurry into a Gunslinger AoE effect. All this and introducing a new weapon to the game, the Pistol, like what you did with Warglaives. A Double Barrel class would be really fun and exciting and making the spec into something really spectacular.
No. As someone that’s been playing the spec basically nonstop for 5 years, no thank you.
Restore Acro’s range increase, make the kit function and do decent damage OUTSIDE of Adrenaline Rush windows, and go back to ADR being a damage ramp with Celerity as an option for an endcap, instead of the current iteration of it being a constant upkeep spell. That’d be a start, and would restore our range-weaving to it’s proper place, and the upkeep minigame is just not fun when it’s entirely out of your control when RNG decides to force 5 Sin Strike casts instead of giving you a single proc.
However, making it a “mid range” spec isn’t viable. There’s no such thing in the design for mechanics for a “mid-range” spec. It’s either ranged or melee. Even healers have “ranged” and “melee” classifications for mechanics.
Forcing the rogue to be in that odd spot on a lot of mechanics would absolutely ruin baiting out things for fights in an instant, as they’d join the Evoker in “weird range” territory, but worse. This alone would get you nixed from groups. No one wants to run with a spec that’s going to actively cause mechanics issues, especially in raids.
I don’t disagree with this. But since they are just beginning to introduce mid range specs they’re only bound to further increase it’s capabilties in pve and pvp environments. But until then they’re just fine being in the close range part of the battle with the increase in range. It’s not hurting anything. It just means they have more up time on a moving target.
But totally agree our dps needs to be better outside of Adrenaline Rush. Also Adrenaline Rush needs to be something better than what it is.
Sin would make a better ranged. The dagger would remain the same, you would just be throwing it to create damage.
Other classes hit a single button to make large numbers. Rogues have to stack multiple buttons and odds and the pray the boss doesn’t pick them for a mechanic once they lined everything up. (That boss always loves to screw up my dps pie). Outlaw really needs a larger punch and less buttons to get to that punch.
Fr if that dude spent as much time as he does on forum actually doing any real pve or pvp content his opinion would be worth a pinch. He puts up a good front with his little emote thing
nope. I have been playing combat / outlaw since 2007. It is the better of the 3 specs as far as it fits my playstyle preference. There are things about outlaw that I’d like to change, but adding pets or making them a mid-range specc is not one of them. I’m also open to flavor changes, like using a 2handed weapon with pistol shot as a sort of offhand mechanic. I thoroughly enjoy pistol shot (my flint-lock Glock) and so I don’t want it removed. I’d pay a pound of my enemy’s tears if pistol shot activated auto attacks with the same range as pistol shot (shuriken toss use to do that back in mop). Like I said, several changes that I’d make as a player who has played this spec for 18 years.
I bump this post from earlier in the expansion because we outlaws are one step closer to the mid range spec with the welcomed new addition to killing spree being a mid ranged gun aoe.
We’re almost there boys it’s the home stretch now.
Also pretty weird that shadow is getting like the 4th rework while outlaw is just not getting one? Make outlaw the mid range Gunslinger it deserves to be.
It certainly isn’t mid-range mechanically (8 yards).
But it is mid-range thematically. And sometimes that holds more weight.
In other games, especially in the ARPG genre, it isn’t uncommon for Rogues to branch out into ranged dual-wielders. Thematically, the new Killing Spree is going to resonate with that vibe. It feels like D3 Demon Hunters.
I would not be surprised if this is Blizzard softly conditioning people into a slightly more significant rework for 12.0
I’d honestly just settle for Outlaw not being a joke in PvP.
Tbh I’d be surprised if they went further with the midrange pistolero theme since, to my knowledge, it seems they’re just making the change to KS so PvE players don’t die all the time using it. I’m not expecting significant change in theme or playstyle for Outlaw anytime soon.
Yeah I noticed the wording change to “random” which is a big concern of mine since KS is our only burst damage option in single target situations. The damage bump will be nice if you’re able to separate targets, but if it’s truly going to randomly do damage to targets within range this is a huge nerf. Not to mention that as a channeled ability (instead of an ability that simply takes course over a couple seconds) that people can simply walk away from your ability now and suffer no damage. Putting 8yds of distance between yourself and an Outlaw rogue is easy.
It’s frustrating because Outlaw already feels pretty impotent in PvP, and not addressing its problems and instead introducing new ones feels entirely nuts.
I think a lot of things in the Outlaw tree should be baseline and talents should be consolidated / moved to add more interesting options.
Outlaw mastery has been horrible since forever - why are there so many Main Gauche talents? Remove them from the tree. It’s insane to me how Slayer Arms and Fury got essentially Outlaw mastery as their first talent node and it’s just leagues better. Not only does it actually do damage, but it interacts with one of their harder hitting rotational abilities. What a novel concept. Imagine a world where Main Gauche applies a stacking debuff that makes your Dispatch actually do some damage. How cool.
Improved Between the Eyes should be baseline how the ability operates.
Summarily Dispatched should be a 1pt talent and should take the place of one of the dead Main Gauche talents higher in the tree. It’s basically the Mongoose Bite mini game that SV has when they take Mongoose, only worse.
Blade Rush should be baseline. We don’t get shadowstep anymore, which I think is fine since it’s not thematically in-line with outlaw, but grappling hook still misfires frequently even in 2025 and this is only a 20 yd range charge. It’s the only reliable button outlaw has to close distance, and unlike shadowstep it can’t be used on allies either.
Combat Stamina should give more survivability. It’s nuts that other classes get 10% or 20% stamina boosts for their talent investment while Outlaw only gets 5%
Take 'em By Surprise should be a 1pt talent
Sleight of Hand and Loaded Dice should be consolidated; the disparity between RtB buffs is too intense and Outlaw does too little damage to have to invest so much in trying to ensure you’re not stuck with one match and it’s like Buried Treasure or something
Replace some of the removed talents with actually damaging talents / things that don’t interact with our useless mastery but make our rotational abilities feel better to push.
I don’t think these are crazy suggestions, but I do think it’s crazy that they can look at the state of Outlaw gameplay and PvP performance and think “yeah man changing KS is all they need.”
