Conquest Changes

In Development The War Within Beta Test
21

The conquest given is simply not high enough with the loss of the vault, and it’s already quite low already with the grind being a massive slog for less skilled players who can’t maintain a solid W/L ratio out the gate in rated. (And don’t get me started on unrated.)

Chasing the ilevel upgrades is a core part of the genre, but gear is also just a means to an end in PvP, and the longer it takes to gear - especially if you’re not PvPing as the sole focus of the game, which achievement statistics show this is the norm - the less appealing it is to play in general.

These changes are also making it more of a “requirement” to PvE for tier bonuses early to mid season. With how inflation’s been handled lately, and how outdated the rewards structure is in general, this whole “best time to play is late season” stuff is getting exhausting, and this is compounding that surprisingly.

Buff the conquest gains.

7 Likes
22

I gotta be honest - are you trolling? How does getting an additional 700 co quest over 10 weeks equate to getting 1 piece from vault each week? Even if you had the worse RNG of all time and only got 1 item you could use in vault over 10 weeks that would STILL be more conquest than the new system for most items. And in reality - each season we are generally getting items we can use in vault the first 3-4 weeks at least.

10 Likes
23

I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but with the removal of the PvP category from the Great Vault, how will we go about upgrading our PvP gear’s PvE ilvl higher than the Champion track?

How it currently works is, the higher your rating, you’ll get a higher ilvl PvP piece from the Great Vault on a different upgrade track. For example, if you’re 2400, the PvP gear will be on the Myth track, about on the equivalent of high M+ keys (I don’t know the exact ilvls on the top of my head but you get the gist of it.)

Gear you buy from the Conquest vendor will remain on the Champion track and you can only upgrade the piece so far in PvE ilvl, and that’s where the vault comes in, putting the gear on higher tracks dependent on rating.

Will gear be put on the appropriate upgrade track (dependent on rating) when purchased from the vendor or will they just remain on Champion track?

6 Likes
24

I really have no idea what the thought process here is. The math doesn’t math. The adjustment to the conquest cap in no way accounts for the loss of an entire piece of gear every week. This numbers need to be adjusted upward significantly, and the conquest gains from wins are also far too low. I don’t want to do that many 2s per week just to cap, especially when I’m not even getting progress on the vault anymore.

4 Likes
25

I’m trying to Justify why you’d only allow 600 more per week from 550 and it just doesn’t make sense to me… Going from 1350 to 1600 to start is a little better but it isn’t ground-breaking by any means. I get that you’ve probably got the directive from some producer to “Make it last 11 weeks to keep players interested.” but this just feels like the middle finger to me…

Players that casually do heroic/mythic/M+ are going to be fully geared in 2 weeks while PVPers are going to be walking around in greens for months? I think an argument could be made to have the conq cap removed at 8 weeks and give us 800-1000 per week but this schedule is… just bad… :frowning:

3 Likes
26

Because PvPers didn’t to like vault. They said during Blizzcon they were removing it from PvP.

27

It’s not that PvPers didn’t like to vault, they just didn’t like that it was tied to only Honor gained from Rated PvP. I understand why Blizzard wants to give PvPers more agency in their gear and not rely on RNG from a vault, but the changes proposed aren’t making up for the piece of gear lost from vault, regardless if RNG. :dracthyr_shrug:

Not to mention, still no answer to how we’re going to upgrade our rated PvP gear above Champion track.

3 Likes
28

I don’t like how it takes 2 weeks to get a two hand weapon, and then you’re sitting on a few hundred conquest til the NEXT week to buy another piece.

With the removal of Vault, I hope we can just earn all our weapons in week one.

I’d prefer early season conquest yield to be enough to purchase weapons and 4 piece tier during week 3. That’s when the meta really starts and developers can gage PvP balance.

1 Like
29

Well played, Blizzard. I see you’re going for your usual antics.
Step 1: Put out a horrendous change.
Step 2: Wait for the community to rage over the change.
Step 3: Put out an updated change with the usual “we listened to your feedback” response.
The updated change is still bad, but it’s less bad and you believe you’ve tricked the community into thinking you actually listened to your feedback.
Again, well played. Sleezy, but well played.

9 Likes
30

Hello,

This makes no sense. Over the course of 10 weeks we’d get barely 1 more item. Compare this to 10 choices of an item before.

And how do we buy sockets? How do we cap the vault now? Delves the new choregast?

2 Likes
31

The first daily win system should be replaced with first 7 wins of the week. That would be a much more flexible system that doesn’t feel like a daily chore, just something you get naturally as you play whenever you happen to play during the week. Players who don’t play every day especially would likely prefer a weekly limit to a daily bonus.

You’ve done a similar system for dungeon daily bonuses in the past (currently also active for dungeons in Cataclysm Classic) and it feels like a much better system for players than daily bonuses.

5 Likes
32

I agree with most other posters - new cap is too low to compensate for losing a lot of vault items.
At the very least it should be 1800 first week + 1050 at week 2-10 and removal at week 11. This way:

  • You can buy a 2H weapon or 2-3 other pieces first week
  • You can buy 1-2 any other item(s) you want aside from weapons each following week
  • You have 11250 Conquest cap total before it is removed, so can fill PVP pieces in every slot.

There also should be a new way to get both tier set items and sockets in PVP.

4 Likes
33

These seem to be flipped.

Are we still receiving 2 crafted token?

For those more visual, we can see it is barely more aggressive than Season 3

5 Likes
34

Nah, the reason is that there was too much friction between PvE and PvP gear in the vault for those who take part in both aspects of the game. You were forced to prioritize one or the other, and would fall behind in gearing in the one you didn’t choose no matter what you did.

Removing PvP from the vault is a great change… IF the conquest cap is increased sufficiently to account for said removal.

5 Likes
35

I thought what we had in Season 4 (1250 per week increase) was the plan for TWW.

36

Seeing it makes me realize even more how miniscule of an increase this is. At week 10 I’d be ale to buy an extra trinket or so. :frowning:

2 Likes
37

I went in and made some modifications to the subsequent win rewards. They really should all be a number that ends with a 5 or 0. Having them end at an 8 is just odd and makes it more difficult to calculate when one will be finished with their conquest cap.

I’m also going to parrot what some posters above me have stated about the conquest cap not being enough to get gear prior to when the cap itself is removed. Also, increasing the cap by only 600 makes it so that on certain weeks, I can’t get any pieces of gear if I am saving up for anything that costs more than 600 conquest.

I also would like to know if PvP gear in general is still going to scale up in War Mode or if it’ll only scale up in Arenas/BG’s. If the latter is the case, then PLEASE for the love of God make it so that we can upgrade PvP gear with honor points again and not flightstones/crests. I really didn’t like that we needed to use a PvE currency to upgrade PvP gear, but I could tolerate it as it only affected PvE. Let’s not do a rehash of MoP, Legion, and BFA where I have to do PvE in order to be BIS in world PvP.

2 Likes
38

Have any of you devs actually experienced what its like to catch up a character mid to late season in retail arenas?

This grind is ridiculous and is part of the reason why arenas have fell off.

I am thoroughly enjoying the CATA arena experience because for one, the arenas give a solid amount of conquest points. 2s give 250 a win, and 75 for a loss.

There is no way im going to play season 4 on retail and grind out arenas with how they are structured now, where you get absolutely nothing for losing and 35 for winning.

2 Likes
39

TLDR; PvP players lose the Great Vault, but gain MINIMAL extra cap and MINIMAL extra conquest. PvP players are required to optimally play EVERY SINGLE DAY to hit conquest cap, when every other type of content can just be grinded to maximum vault completion in an evening. PvP players time is NOT being respected. PvP is now has the highest time commitment for rewards, despite only offering PvP specific gear.

In week one, you get 250 extra cap, and whilst you are progressing towards 1600 you are gaining a pathetic extra 8 conquest per win (extra 15 for the first of the day) if you play rated shuffle or BG blitz.

So if someone has one evening a week to do endgame content, and they choose to do PvP (shuffle and BG blitz) instead of M+ or raiding, they need to win ~27 games to cap out.

Setting aside two days a week for endgame content is also reasonable. Over two days doing endgame PvP you’d need ~26 games to cap out.

If you maximise your dailies, completing 7 first wins for shuffle or BG Blitz, then you still need to win 21 matches per week.

Meanwhile, raiders get loot in the great vault at 3/5/7 bosses.

PvE dungeons get loot at 1/4/8 heroics, M+ of timewalking dungeons.

World content is set at 1/4/9 acitivies.

It should NOT be harder for PvP players, who can only buy PvP gear, to gear up compared to people who only do heroic dungeons.

Furthermore, it is completely unrealistic for the optimal route to cap out PvP conquest requiring 21 wins over 7 days when raiders can clear all 7 bosses, dungeons can be completed back to back, and so can world activities. This design is wrong, and favours every single type of content in the game other than PvP.

There is a much higher time commitment required by PvP players to attain conquest cap compared to everything else in the great vault, and the rewards are only PvP specific - they are not worth the time and effort.

There are two ways to balance this:

Make the maximum amount of dungeons required to cap out the vault ~26. This is around a 3x increase, so therefore increase raid bosses required to 21 and world activities 27 to cap out the vault. Then everything needs a silly amount of players time to cap out, and everyone is unhappy, but the game is balanced.

OR

If one heroic dungeon is enough to get loot from the great vault, then one win with shuffle and BG blitz should grant enough conquest to grant a piece of gear. After 8 wins you should be at the cap. Ignoring the daily bonus, this would mean that each normal win of shuffle and BG Blitz should actually grant 200 conquest.

200 conquest per win of shuffle and BG Blitz is the correct amount for the PvP reward track to be scaled against doing heroic dungeons and world activities, arguably the easiest ways to cap out the great vault.

This is the absolute minimum that PvP deserves.

Respect ALL players time. Do not be bias.

4 Likes
40

I share the same feedback as others.

A) how do we upgrade pvp gear and different tracks?

B) the conquest changes are not enough. We need way more conquest. It be nice to have some conquest for a loss, and even more for a win.

The overall conquest caps need to be improved heavily. Losing out on the vault is huge for tier. And as someone who does pve and pvp, These changes are just bad. It feels like pvp is an after thought even more now.

C) How do we obtain sockets?

D) How exactly is tier going to work? We are going to be forced to use the catalyst exclusively? If that is the case, pvp players need another way to obtain tier pieces or it will force pvp players to run pve.

E) as mentioned above, I like the idea of the “daily win” to be 7 charges per week. As someone who only gets to play on weekends due to work, I’d love this change a lot if implemented.

3 Likes