Am I missing the hype on deathbringer? Seems like this is the spec everyone is pulling towards.
(simmed with sky fury MoW and lust to imitate my m+ group default gems/enchants/consumables)
Heres my deathbringer sims:
patchwork: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4CSXR26qduVSsdinKPR4Pw
dungeon slice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cWxXJ5V7xYhdCJUw93Qbuf
Heres my rider sims:
patchwork: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dWFUEZeiVSbcagyhf6PHva
dungeon slice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hbunt9AcyAQ8d9CQcrMzDB
rider offers wayyy more mobility and utility, sims higher (and performs better from my in game tests) also allows you to run stoneskin off hand for more defense/survival.
(if you want to test in live, i suggest treating the chains of trollbane like you would a 5 stack razorice and prio popping the chains)
What am i missing about the hype… Plan on playing rider first couple of weeks in raid and m+. I really think people are overlooking it performance wise and it seems a lot safer.
Edit: Changed talents and paramaters for sims to make more comparable
DB with your talents 5 min optimal buffs:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ib4DjKehXWLyFeEGtVmasF
Rider with my talents, stoneskin, 5 min optimal buffs:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cSpHV22tzH94rec82mjEhX
still think stoneskin and horse make it a better choice
I’ll never play deathbringer. I’ll mostly be doing m+ and free Death and decay is just total QoL to mitigate a garbage mechanic even if it is RNG without fw fury. Better mobility is a bonus. It’s a shame because I want to try it but since there is still a lot of power tied to DnD I just can’t bring myself to drop rider.
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Well for starters the talents you’re using aren’t the highest simming/best options. When we use those, we get the below:
Deathbringer ST: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8PFvShVWG3MqfWD5BMBGBC)
Rider ST: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/acKzuGnPH1zFouBGnWmGir
Deathbringer Dungeon Slice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8Pb2QRAw61QXHJCSixZqhh
Rider Dungeon Slice : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qiRgw5u2gNy9cRr2Aw6FBE
Both are functionally close enough to be rounding errors based on RNG for each.
Ultimately, the reason for the DB hype is because scythes are cool and it adds a button to Frost that has power behind it, adds something actually new for the spec, and does something for and by the player. FWF & Riders on the other hand doesn’t really add anything new or interesting; it just summons minions that add 30%~ damage by existing.
Reapers Mark is also the highest hitting ability in the game right now so it has that, too.
You’ll never run stoneskin in PvE unless you’re playing Breath.
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You linked rider for everyone but the first.
It sims higher… and is safer… you wont play it if you run shatter in m+ but I dont think you need to.
You also used different parameters for the first one… not sure it even equates to comparable…
DB with your talents 5 min optimal buffs:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ib4DjKehXWLyFeEGtVmasF
Rider with my talents, stoneskin, 5 min optimal buffs:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cSpHV22tzH94rec82mjEhX
5 Min brings them more in line for sure, still dont know why you would give up the option to run stoneskin though.
Why wouldnt you run Shatter if you are going DW? Its free aoe damage because RI stacks up so fast that every single Frost Strike should be shattered.
DB goes into DW Frost very well through multiple areas.
Sometimes you get lucky and end up with 4 exterminates back to back, which is nice.
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Riders has more fun and QoL, i’m going with the one that makes me feel good.
Also mobility has always been the major flaw and weakness of DKs and Riders literally fix that.
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it will probably be the go to when they eventually nerf DB
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That was my fault; I ran improper sims because I didn’t realize you were using SSG.
I didn’t use different parameters; the sims I listed are 1:1 with each other. Not being the same as your parameters doesn’t mean anything because I wasn’t comparing against your sims, but the sims I ran.
Back to the question, and using my character…
Rider + SSG Sim:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bnZuEVmujMHXshQcHyeF6U → 725k~
Rider + Shattering Sim:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4MiWSwHevZ1HzffCA8VxQ4 → 708k~
Deathbringer + Shattering Sim:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5a7SHcc1BnvMmUEuYbnRqY → 732k~
I’m assuming the reason you’re getting Riders simming equal or higher than DB is because you’re more heavily stat’d towards haste instead of Crit & Mastery. So far, you’re the only person I’ve seen where Riders sims ahead of DB by any amount.
But it ultimately doesn’t matter anyways since the still best simming profile is
Deathbringer Breath + AA:
Mine
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eySkRqdTKFq7WD36XSi6cR → 778k
Yours (with your specific parameters)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fpnep1HT4dNgcfr9qLbeFu → 742k
I’m not sure about rider yet.
Dps with rider VS dB over a sustained period is definitely dB for sure.
Db lines up perfectly with pillar, and both have relatively shorts cds, and Db goes off what 4 times?
Problem with rider is that you have a THREE MINUTE CD to get all 4 horseman out, and that severely cripples your dps.
I’ll sustain 480k over 3 pilllar/Db rotations, while bursting for 680k for about 20s each go.
With rider I’ll max burst at maybe 500k, but most usually that 480 mark , then the dps just goes very downhill to about 380
Maybe with tier sets and other better gear rider wins?
But for now Db is the way to go for dps
Riders should be every 1.5 minutes not every 3.
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IDK I burst to 900-1mil on target dummy unbuffed and sustain 610-620k over 5 min on target dummy un-buffed.
Gear and stat weights are going to be the biggest contribute to DB/Rider gameplay. Rider definitely wants more early haste.
New sims with pretty much BiS I can get before M0’s start:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3VthVjhPKsTFVtPonCb3Bs
how are you getting 4 riders every 1.5?
frost wyrms fury is 3 min cd or am i missing a point somewhere that reduces the cd?
theres a talen underneath FWF that makes it 1.5 and stun
ah i stopped reading after the freeze