First id like to start out on a positive note. Templar Paladin, Diabolist warlock, the trees we’ve seen so far for my main 2 classes look AMAZINGLY fun. Going into war within and I cant wait to see what empyrean hammer looks like or these other demons look like when playing demonology warlock especially since diabolist tree with the minute and a half felguard lines up with both tyrant AND 3 minute nether portal just sounds like a blast.
Here is what im NOT looking forward to…the absolute tidal wave of “this looks and feels super strong so it has to be nerfed.” Please for once in your lives can you NOT listen to the junkies who want everything to be nerfed in the ground before its even in the actual players hands to feel and experience it? And the community that is the loudest mouth piece to this are the PvP community.
Pvpers…your time is over, you make up at the peak high end 14.7% of the player base on retail at the most, you havent gotten any new pvp maps, barely any content additions and almost no attention in years, why should the other 86% have to be forced to have OUR beloved classes nerfed because YOU happen to find them annoying to go against in a pvp scenario? Heck even in War Within they are removing the pvp section from the vault, stop trying to drag everyone else down with you.
One final note if nerfs actually are needed, then PLEASE approach them with a gentle touch, like a safe cracker. Dont nerf something out the gate with 50% reduction right after the first week, like how you constantly do to us rretpaladins, try 10%, if that doesnt work then do 15% if things still arent there then go 20% like that.
If you think these hero talents are getting smacked with the Abashii’s nerf bat throughout beta, you’re in for a rude awakening.
What we’ve seen now and what we’re going to end up with on release, will be significantly different.
It’s a normal feeling whenever a feature of an expansion is announced. There are always details that leave us somewhat apprehensive, in terms of balance or innovation.
However, the alpha phase hasn’t even started yet; many tests, balance adjustments, and changes will occur, perhaps even content cuts shown in the announcement.
It’s expected that, in the final version, it will be almost completely different from what has been shown so far, especially in terms of balance.
Thats objectively false though. A majority of the balance changes that go through are because blizzard gets hammered by requests from the pvp community for it to be “nerfed because its too strong.”
I can give an example, ret paladin rework in 10.0.7 was nerfed into the absolute ground because of the pvp community. It wad nerfed AFTER THE FACT that AWC happened that week and ret/warrior consistently lost to Mage/warlock so thanks pvp community!
Not to mention A LOT of the balance tuning to dungeons and raids can be left alone as long as classes are kept as minimally touched in the nerf department as humanly possible
Ya know, i just got back from outside atfer grabbing a coffee with my bro, talking about stuff, and i’m already seeing like 1 or 2 fallacy here the moment i got back here. So i’l let a robot do my job here.
ChatGPT: This sentence contains the following fallacies:
* Hasty Generalization - assuming that all people who want something nerfed are junkies. * Ad Hominem - attacking the character of those who want something nerfed by labeling them as junkies. * Strawman - misrepresenting the arguments of those who want something nerfed as being irrational or excessive.
If this singlar sentence here (the one that caught my eye) here contains like 3 fallacies… (4 kind of because “Actual players” sounds like no true scotsman.) The rest of the thread here isn’t going to bode well…
Because in order to have a fun and functional PvP, you need to have balancing.
Granted, a rock,paper,scissors type PvP can work, but Blizzard is looking for an equal playing ground regardless of class here.
That isn’t to say they can’t have sepperate stats for PvP to balance from. Infact they should.
If you have to let a robot do your thinking for you then thats a poor output and reasoning from you or what the robot can do.
The statement stands that A LOT of fun abilities have been scrapped altogether or never picked because of how heavily theyve been nerfed. There are times and places for nerfs like ive said but they should be small and rarely used
Of coursei dont want my mains gutted before I can play them, I dont think ANYONE wants that. But if things are fun then let them be fun and strong.
If they release the enhancement/ele tree for shaman and its like “you can now use a 2h mace or axe and it sounds REALLY strong” im not gonna be calling for it to be gutted. Let fun be fun for once
Having played MMOs of all stripes for over TWO DECADES {as a lot of us have} I can tell you with certainty that the parity in Live has been so level, it actually beggars the mind. This is the most balanced game as far as classes go by a LARGE margin.
And it’s not a PvP vs PvE issue, both sides errantly complain about balance (m+ and SS players) when what they want is a win button.
I came back from a walk and it was nice yesterday. I recommend it.
And pointing out logical fallacies isn’t poor reasoning. Your argument there was built upon them. Even without the robot, i can see like 1 or 2 logical fallacies there… This isn’t to mention the argument suggests you don’t want functional PvP. And given the later comments, i’m not wrong in believing that’s what you think here.
If you don’t want the wave to wash your castle away, don’t build your castle out of sand.
Also, we use technology to let us do the thinking for us all the dang time. It’s really no different to using ChatGPT. Infact, ChatGPT is an advanced Google engine. Not literally but figuratively.
Because Balance is important? As fun would be using overpowered abilities, it’s not as fun to be on the receiving end of them and having to do nothing against that, while your overpowered ability isn’t up to snuff to what the other OP ability that killed you. Which i’m guessing, that is the “Time and place” when you call for a nerf you’ve said, is that you’re not having fun being killed by OP abilites.
But you didnt do any of that, you let a robot do it for you which makes you look unintelligent at the very least if not entirely disingenuous so lets try to use our own brain to come up with a rational arguement eh?
My point in the segments you’ve carved out without giving any context to is simply that PvPers make up such a low margin of the games total base yet have the highest amount of influence in its balance when they should have very little especially when the nerfs to abilities as much as they say “oh its for pvp only!” Have a DIRECT impact on PvE. If blizzard ever wanted to make pvp aandpve balancing seperate from one another that would be fine and id welcome it but right now it isnt the case.
Maybe if you actually bothered to refute the entirety of what im replying with instead of attempting to break apart sections of it in a poor attempt to sound smart, we could actually have acgenuine conversation about things
A Logical fallacy is still a logical fallacy. Regardless who or what pointed it out.
And i’m going to stop reading your diatribe here, because you’re doing the same thing you’re accusing me of. And you’ve done that before with my other comment too, to get upset over me using the ChatGPT.
OH, and should i also mention your comments quoting other people which you’ve said, in your words “carved out without giving any context …”?..
It’s almost like this is a normal thing to do on forums that everybody uses, including you, hypocrite.
It just sounds like you dislike the fact that i didn’t immediately agree with you because of that one pivotal sentence that pretty much shows how weak this “concern” is…, and therefore you’re using “YOU DIDN’T RESPOND TO THE ENTIRE THING!!!” to try to discredit me. My response would’ve been the same regardless if i did.
My advice: avoid logical fallacies and stop complaining about people using technology if you want a genuine conversation about things. And maybe take walks every now and then, given you think people pointing out logical fallacies means their trying to sound smart.
Nothing you came into this conversation with was genuine from the start, if it had been you wouldnt have opened with “I used chat GPT to point out the illogical fallacies and ad hominem in your statement.” Which lets face it, REAL ad hominem is coming into a conversation trying to detract from what the post is about to insinuate some fallacy when the truth of the statement was that PvP players have had a large say in balance issues despite making up less than a 1/3 of the total player base…which you have yet to refute at ANY point.
Its clear which of us needs the walk and it isnt me though I take plenty, all ive seen from your replies is a laziness to do your own work, hence the chat gpt reliance, and a holier than thou attitude compareable to a high school teenager.
If you have ANY kind of merit or evidence heck id even take a insinuation at this point that what I said about the smallest community having the biggest say is wrong id take that but until you find it you may want to choose your next reply wisely
