EDIT 11/4/2018 10:05 EST - I added my OWN eyes and ear edits based on the Alpha Worgen Model: https://imgur.com/a/GFvNlcI
EDIT 11/5/2018 5:40 EST - I applied all alpha model eye textures onto the new model and compiled it into a showcase. I also created mane hair color edits!
Eyes: https://imgur.com/gallery/oAeYamq
Manes: https://imgur.com/gallery/10ZjoJD
EDIT 11/8/2018 2:00 EST - Made an art composition using my character with a blend of both alpha and live elements.
https://www.deviantart.com/wolfie407/art/Keori-Kat-Denhardt-771659823
EDIT 11/10/2018 4:29 EST - Reference Sheet Created! https://tinyurl.com/keorireddit
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Good morning and happy day 2 of BlizzCon.
First, I want to start off this thread by thanking Blizzard for finally answering and showing the players the progress you've made on the goblin and worgen reworks. We do hope that you continue to listen to feedback in regards to model improvements in the coming months so that when they are ready to roll out, the players will have an awesome model available to them.
Second, I just want to say you guys completely nailed the male worgen model. He looks absolutely amazing and I personally love it!
This thread however is to focus on the new female worgen model, giving my own constructive feedback in hopes in helping the art team get a bit more insight into why the model hasn't been as well received as they may have anticipated. This is by no means a thread to bash or question the integrity, ability, or talent of Blizzard and their artists who are constantly at work trying to give us a great game.
So let us begin! Allow me to first go into the good stuff!
The perma-snarl is gone! This alone is the absolute best way to improve this model. She is now expressive and has a mouth that looks more appropriate and proportioned correctly. The fur textures and patterns also seem to be well in place. The overall shape is looking good while still being true to the alpha and live models.
Now here are where my concerns come in. Before I begin, I would like to point out to everyone that we are seeing only 1 type of face, ear shape/style, fur color, and hairstyle.
Concern #1 - The Eyes
As many people have so vividly spoken out, the eyes to me seem off. It's a very Disney/anime feeling to me. Some people like this look, that is fine. I personally can live with it if it comes down to it but frankly, I prefer something more wolf-like, aka, what you had in the old alpha models.
As a reference, I'd like for you all to take a look at the Alpha vs Live thread I had created so long ago, which has actually been brought up on numerous threads (by other people mind you) since the reveal of this model.
https://imgur.com/a/IPRzO
As you scroll down to the section of the alpha vs live version featuring the eyes, you will see that they were much more colorful and vibrant. I want you to forget about the eye colors here for a moment and look at the -shape- of them. The shape of the eye itself and the iris are exactly what a wolf's look like. Despite the vibrant eye colors (which of course can be toned down) it's the shape of the eye and the iris that gives the alpha model the superior look. It's mysterious, it's modest, very expressive with the various lashes, and it definitely has a sense of ferocity in its own compared to the live/upcoming model.
Solution: People undoubtedly like the upcoming eyes though many do not. This is honestly where Blizzard can give players more character customization. I propose adding more "wolf-like" variants into the mix for people who want their worgen ladies to really look fierce.
Honeydance of WRA had actually photoshopped an interesting take on the models, giving the female model something that compares to the worgen male:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/d6b2f869cb9cf06b26037b83bc7a08d9/tumblr_phlcvkY08o1xdit5yo1_1280.png
I personally would prefer an update on the alpha model's eyes and add them as an option to the softer looks you currently have.
Another thing to note. Something that could benefit -every- race of the game. I think eye color and face should be separated from each other. This would add another dynamic way to give the players a sense of more customization.
Concern #2 - The Ears
Again, please refer to your alpha models: https://imgur.com/a/IPRzO
It is clear that you used the live model to update to what we are getting in 8.2.5 and that's perfectly fine. Of course what we saw at Blizzcon was only -one- variant of ears. (Which happens the be the same ears I use on live)
The alpha models had more anatomically correct ears, sitting up higher on the head. I would GREATLY appreciate it if Blizzard could add these type of ears as an option to the players instead of having all ear shapes formed at the side of the head. This would again give more of a wolf like appearance compared to what we have now and are getting.
Concern #3 - The Mane & Hairstyles
Alpha models were very diverse when it came to hairstyles. This is actually where Alpha doesn't come ahead for me because I personally am not a huge fan of neither live or alpha. They both have equal standing in my eyes.
I did however like a few alpha hairstyles but it was only a couple just as I like a couple of the live. My concern is that there is just an absolute lack of customization with the mane/hairstyle. I know on the preview we saw at Blizzcon, there was no actual hairstyle, just showing the mane.
The mane's color isn't changeable as it was compared to alpha models though, regardless of skin color, that is why it has a -slight- upper hand in things whereas in live, it's just that flat, dark grey color. No customization options for it. I think that integrating a few more styles such as braids, pony tails, longer portions of hair that come to the front, etc. could do some wonders. Though of course this goes into a bit of uncharted territories.
These are the only issues I have pertaining to the model. There are 2 more concerns I want to address that isn't pertaining to it but still involve the worgen female and what they are about.
Concern #4 - The Voice
Being blunt, it's God awful and we've been saying this for years. I understand you wanted something growly but what we have now literally sounds like someone who had been smoking all of their life. I do not like sounding like Marge Simpson. Even after all of these years, I still hate the voice.
What gives me hope is seeing Celestine the Harvester in Val'sharah. Her voice is the Gilnean female voice and it's miles ahead of the worgen female.
Please I ask... fix this. Now that you're finally fixing the model, please give this another look with the voice. I've endured it for eight years and I still haven't been able to stop hating it.
Concern #5 - Inability to Actually Customize Human Appearance
This goes for both male and females. I understand that there is a certain coding to game which is why our worgen customization is linked to how we appear as a human. As a long time rp'er, it kills me that I can't have my human counterpart look the way I want her to look because of the options I want her worgen appearance to look.
You could have it so the player customizes their worgen form first. All the bells and whistles. They then accept what their appearance is and then go into a second character customization screen to allow them to make their human forms.
I know it's wishful thinking, but humans themselves have far more customization options than worgen do with their human forms. Perhaps maybe open up the way so that we can change that? I know, as I said, wishful thinking.
When the player accepts both customization options, it then links the two together in the code. Now, I know the coding goes beyond linking worgen/human appearances. It goes into toys too such as Orb of the Sin'dorei. Perhaps have it so that the coding is linked to only the worgen form while the human form is a completely separate entity? I am not a coder or programmer... but there's gotta be something!
Anyways, I've gone on long enough. I am sure I am going to get some heat for my criticisms but I just wanted to get my voice out there on this. I've been advocating worgen reworks (and nelf worgen) for a very very long time and it's something I am very passionate about.
Overall I am happy with the new worgen female, I am just hoping Blizzard will give us the option to have them be a little bit more wolf-like and savage.
Thank you again!
4 Likes
Bumpin'.
I think the biggest issue is the eyes, but if they could, say offer the option to look more akin to the alpha model in the days of yore, that'd be just grand.
Entirely grand.
I think the biggest issue is the eyes, but if they could, say offer the option to look more akin to the alpha model in the days of yore, that'd be just grand.
Entirely grand.
They would look 100% better if they would just allow you to choose the male type eyes instead of the weird super human looking ones. Still, at least it's a step in the right direction. They no longer look like rabid chihuahuas.
Now THIS is a proper feedback thread! Kudos to you, OP.
I really agree about the eyes - As they currently are, they are more human than wolf. While Worgen are humanoid wolves due to the curse, I agree that the eyes (when in Worgen form) should reflect the form more & be more wolf-like. And yes, I think eye customization separate from the entire face would be awesome for ALL races (and a step in the right direction for full customization of looks by being able to choose each part of the face, as well as the markings for NElves).
I would also LOVE to be able to customize my human & my Worgen separately, but I have very little hope for that because I think it would be a coding nightmare.
I'd also like to have more hair options and colors; if I choose red hair for the human, I should have a reddish cast to my Worgen hair as well.
I really agree about the eyes - As they currently are, they are more human than wolf. While Worgen are humanoid wolves due to the curse, I agree that the eyes (when in Worgen form) should reflect the form more & be more wolf-like. And yes, I think eye customization separate from the entire face would be awesome for ALL races (and a step in the right direction for full customization of looks by being able to choose each part of the face, as well as the markings for NElves).
I would also LOVE to be able to customize my human & my Worgen separately, but I have very little hope for that because I think it would be a coding nightmare.
I'd also like to have more hair options and colors; if I choose red hair for the human, I should have a reddish cast to my Worgen hair as well.
The new model is great.
11/03/2018 07:47 PMPosted by RiggThe new model is great.
Great, yeah, but EVERYTHING can be improved. Considering the new models are still in Alpha phases, this is our time to get in feedback.
I would like to have more hair options.
Model Updates
People really want the glowing eye options for female Worgen—any plans to have that customization?
-This option is planned, it just wasn’t shown in the presentation.
-They would like to interate models even further. They’re happy the permanent scowl on Worgen Females are gone, but the models still have a chihuahua look, and they want more facial customization options.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288418/blizzcon-2018-interview-with-ion-hazzikostas-and-chris-robinson-azshara-rises-na#model-updates
This is giving me much hope and proves THEY ARE LISTENING TO US.
Again if they followed what I suggested, keep the makeup out of the equation while redesigning the eyes and ears to resonate the alpha model, worgen female could have a potential winning model!
1 Like
Great post OP! *thumbs up*
I support all of the things here, and thank you Blizzard for listening!
I support all of the things here, and thank you Blizzard for listening!
Like others have said, great feedback thread! Very well written!
I myself, have a few things I'd like to see.
A lot of people are complaining about the eyes. I actually like the normal, human-ish eyes; I hope the male Worgen get the option for them as well. But I'd also love the ability to have glowing eyes for either sex. Let us pick between normal or glowy.
(According to a Reddit screenie, they're planning on doing this for females: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/145786340456398848/508476162763259904/unknown.png no way to tell if this is legit, though)
I hope one day WoW separates eyes from faces.
We desperately need to separate human options from Worgen ones. There's some facial markings I just can't use because they have old lady faces and my girl isn't an old lady!
The voice needs to be changed. Direly. Celeste, the Worgen female who talks during select Legion world quests is a great example of what us players need for our own Worgen.
I hope we get some more interesting hairstyles than the ones we have, but overall I'm pretty easy to please in that regard. The ones we have now are fine, just a bit... same-y?
Seeing the revamped Worgen made me pick this character back up; she was one of my first toons, but I couldn't stand the look or the voice... so she sat, and rot, for a little under a year. Now I'm leveling her to 120, because I cannot wait to make her look like what we saw in those previews!
I'm all for more ferocious female Worgen, but I love soft look the female has in the previews! I like the male permasnarl, but I'd love to have a softer option for them, too!
TL;DR give us more options and choice when it comes to our characters. If I want to look like a gentle, human-eyed Worgen or glowy, snarly Worgen, I should be able to. On both sexes.
At the end of the day, I want to get what I saw in that preview; I don't want a repeat of the Cata alpha - to - live.
I myself, have a few things I'd like to see.
A lot of people are complaining about the eyes. I actually like the normal, human-ish eyes; I hope the male Worgen get the option for them as well. But I'd also love the ability to have glowing eyes for either sex. Let us pick between normal or glowy.
(According to a Reddit screenie, they're planning on doing this for females: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/145786340456398848/508476162763259904/unknown.png no way to tell if this is legit, though)
I hope one day WoW separates eyes from faces.
We desperately need to separate human options from Worgen ones. There's some facial markings I just can't use because they have old lady faces and my girl isn't an old lady!
The voice needs to be changed. Direly. Celeste, the Worgen female who talks during select Legion world quests is a great example of what us players need for our own Worgen.
I hope we get some more interesting hairstyles than the ones we have, but overall I'm pretty easy to please in that regard. The ones we have now are fine, just a bit... same-y?
Seeing the revamped Worgen made me pick this character back up; she was one of my first toons, but I couldn't stand the look or the voice... so she sat, and rot, for a little under a year. Now I'm leveling her to 120, because I cannot wait to make her look like what we saw in those previews!
I'm all for more ferocious female Worgen, but I love soft look the female has in the previews! I like the male permasnarl, but I'd love to have a softer option for them, too!
TL;DR give us more options and choice when it comes to our characters. If I want to look like a gentle, human-eyed Worgen or glowy, snarly Worgen, I should be able to. On both sexes.
At the end of the day, I want to get what I saw in that preview; I don't want a repeat of the Cata alpha - to - live.
As again, but this time my support is strong since they really want to improve on this. I want to finally get a chance to play on those original models or at least choose them as an optional customization choice.
1 Like
♫Its beginning to look a lot like Disney, everywhere you go♪
all this and more on blizz's new album, Broken Record Xmas tune covers for the Alliance. :)
all this and more on blizz's new album, Broken Record Xmas tune covers for the Alliance. :)
11/03/2018 09:10 PMPosted by Dæmonjesùs♫Its beginning to look a lot like Disney, everywhere you go♪
all this and more on blizz's new album, Broken Record Xmas tune covers for the Alliance. :)
I blame your Tauren with their big ole eyes! :P
Either way, thanks all for showing support! I've been advocating this as well as Night Elf Worgen for a long time.
One of things I've been striving for is more character customization that is why I repeatedly tell Blizzard they can do just that within their own platform right now simply by separating eye colors from the face!
Too many times I loved an eye color but it was tied down to a face I didn't like at all...
The photoshop with the smaller male eyes added to the female face are a definite improvement.
The eyes are much too big, it gives it that disney doe-eyed look that just doesn't fit.
I also agree with the ears. They're much too big, the wrong shape, and in the wrong location. This is another thing that makes them look more like a dog. More like the males would be ideal but maybe not as long (although the existing male models have some bad ear options as well)
Last night laying in bed, the third big difference hit me. It's one of the bigger reasons the female looks like a dog instead of a wolf, the hair.
On top of the head, if the hair/mane was moved back to the back of the skull, instead of on top, then add some tufts to the cheeks/sideof the skull, and then on the neck, all more similar to the male, I think those changes coupled with the eyes and ear changes would go far in making the models match better and the female look much more wolf like.
Perhaps a little less contrast in the color difference between the regular fur coat and the mane as well.
The mane could just be a different hair model for customization sake.
Summary
Small eyes with glow options like the male.
More wolf like ears and better placement
Neck fur/mane more like the male.
Make it look like a wolf.
Oh! and PLEASE uncouple the customization options from human to worgen form. That absolutely sucks.
The eyes are much too big, it gives it that disney doe-eyed look that just doesn't fit.
I also agree with the ears. They're much too big, the wrong shape, and in the wrong location. This is another thing that makes them look more like a dog. More like the males would be ideal but maybe not as long (although the existing male models have some bad ear options as well)
Last night laying in bed, the third big difference hit me. It's one of the bigger reasons the female looks like a dog instead of a wolf, the hair.
On top of the head, if the hair/mane was moved back to the back of the skull, instead of on top, then add some tufts to the cheeks/sideof the skull, and then on the neck, all more similar to the male, I think those changes coupled with the eyes and ear changes would go far in making the models match better and the female look much more wolf like.
Perhaps a little less contrast in the color difference between the regular fur coat and the mane as well.
The mane could just be a different hair model for customization sake.
Summary
Small eyes with glow options like the male.
More wolf like ears and better placement
Neck fur/mane more like the male.
Make it look like a wolf.
Oh! and PLEASE uncouple the customization options from human to worgen form. That absolutely sucks.
Perhaps the fur colorings/facial markings/transitions could be more like the male on a skin as well.
Man I wish I was good with digital painting/photoshop.
Man I wish I was good with digital painting/photoshop.
Honestly, I love the proportions of the face overall. It looks significantly more visually pleasing & gives both males and females so much more expression.
Only thing i'd really love to see is more bright colored eyes on the females. Otherwise i'm pretty happy with how it looks. I would go to say that the Female Worgen eyes fit in more in line with the current models. It's not Disney-esque. It's HD Warcraft-esque. All the models have larger eyes now. This is just how their style has evolved.
Only thing i'd really love to see is more bright colored eyes on the females. Otherwise i'm pretty happy with how it looks. I would go to say that the Female Worgen eyes fit in more in line with the current models. It's not Disney-esque. It's HD Warcraft-esque. All the models have larger eyes now. This is just how their style has evolved.
Okay, so I copied one of the edited images to my phone and used my stylus to draw on top of it.
What're thoughts on this?
It has the male eyes that was the starting edit someone...(Honey?) did.
I drew on more neck fur to match the male style, repositioned the ears with a more wolflike shape and hinted at some fur on the cheeks.
https://imgur.com/a/b6uIOlX
What're thoughts on this?
It has the male eyes that was the starting edit someone...(Honey?) did.
I drew on more neck fur to match the male style, repositioned the ears with a more wolflike shape and hinted at some fur on the cheeks.
https://imgur.com/a/b6uIOlX
I'll agree here. It may seem a small thing to some, but Worgen have been so, so very far overdue for an update that it would be nice to ensure a variety of eye shapes are available.
And, frankly, while I'm happy they updated the Goblin models as well, I feel similarly about them. It could just be the images so-far available, but I prefer the somewhat sharper and more evocative shape of the facial features on the old/current Goblin female.
Give me creepy; dire; weary; angry; bright; intelligent; beautiful; ugly; determined; scarred; insane; grotesque; glimmering; shimmering tattoos; glowing eyes and other things things of multiple colors. Don't give me Disneyesque.
And, frankly, while I'm happy they updated the Goblin models as well, I feel similarly about them. It could just be the images so-far available, but I prefer the somewhat sharper and more evocative shape of the facial features on the old/current Goblin female.
Give me creepy; dire; weary; angry; bright; intelligent; beautiful; ugly; determined; scarred; insane; grotesque; glimmering; shimmering tattoos; glowing eyes and other things things of multiple colors. Don't give me Disneyesque.
I like the changes...and the OP's feedback. I like the cutesy eyes too....why do cute gnomes get to corner the ophthalmology market? I can see the jealousness of the BE's and VE's...afraid some hot Worgen is going to start winning all the trial of styles.
I do not mind the voice actress how it stands...but would like an option to turn it off like DK's get. Then you'd have a raspy voice for those Full Moon days and a more pleasant voice for those Quarter Moons.
Oh...but the biggest thing that Blizz could do for Worgen's....The ABSOLUTE Most HUGE thing to do for every Worgen in the Blizzaverse...is to make Lord Warden's Top Hat a green item so we can transmog...do it Blizzdevians...make it happen!!
/sniff sniff paw print looks around marks territory
I do not mind the voice actress how it stands...but would like an option to turn it off like DK's get. Then you'd have a raspy voice for those Full Moon days and a more pleasant voice for those Quarter Moons.
Oh...but the biggest thing that Blizz could do for Worgen's....The ABSOLUTE Most HUGE thing to do for every Worgen in the Blizzaverse...is to make Lord Warden's Top Hat a green item so we can transmog...do it Blizzdevians...make it happen!!
/sniff sniff paw print looks around marks territory
I think the bigger mane, cheek hair, and more wolf-like ears could all easily just be additional customization options. Other than the big mane, they're all things that you can change on the male.