Concerned that too many Race/Class combos are diluting identity and culture

This is something I’ve been fearful of, and I worry is unfortunately beginning to take shape. While I will fully admit that Demon Hunters are simply too restrictive, and it is totally worthwhile to re-evaluate certain restrictions (Dwarves, for example, couldn’t be Shamans originally, but are thematically actually pretty appropriate), I do feel something important is lost when you open up TOO many options.

For example, Priests as a class are largely devoid of any sort of “class fantasy” or “identity”. Mechanically, sure, they can be healers and deal Shadow damage, but what really is a Priest? Because literally every race can now be a Priest, it kind of dilutes any sort of cultural identity.

I honestly think far too many restrictions have been opened up already. Orcs and Tauren have no place being Mages or Priests (or the latter, Paladins), because there is zero overlap between the cultural identity of either race or class.

The thing is, those restrictions are help what MAKE those races feel cool and meaningful. If the ONLY thing you’re actually choosing when you make your character is “what they look like”, or “what their buttons are”, then those choices are totally devoid of flavor.

The actual WORLD of Warcraft (no pun intended) is appealing to a lot of us, largely because it’s a world with such a rich history worth understanding. The Draenei aren’t just “playable Eredar”, they brought with them a super interesting culture, and their class choices were an extension of that. Not EVERY race got Mages; this implied the Draenei had a connection to the Arcane. Very few races could be Paladins; this wound up being a defining characteristic of the Draenei in a lot of media.

When you just apply the filter of “everyone is the same, they just look different”, it robs these races of their sense of culture. Much as I’m interested to see what direction they take them in with Calia Menethil, the Forsaken are ultimately WILDLY different people than the Blood Elves, or the Humans of Stormwind, or really anyone else. The Night Elves and Tauren are remarkably peaceful towards one another, but still have some distinct differences, just as the Tauren and the Orcs are not the same, nor are Orcs and Trolls.

In an effort to “let everyone be everything”, I think a lot of uniqueness is lost in the process.

Personally, I fear we may have gone beyond anything that can be salvaged. But were in my decision to make, I would personally re-evaluate the options that are available, and instances that are not deemed “lore-friendly”, I would offer players free race-changes.

A few such changes that spring to my mind;

  • A Night Elf, Orc, and Tauren Mages (the former, because it is quite literally why the Highborne were exiled to begin with, the basis of their entire culture, the latter two, they just don’t feel appropriate to the “scholarly” theming that defines Mages in Warcraft).

  • Demon Hunters, I would probably add Orcs (perhaps with “Fel Orc” options?), and possibly “Eredar” (functionally Draenei, but with red skin and Gift of the Naaru maybe rebranded something like “Gift of the Illidari”).

  • Similarly, I might actually add Nightborne Paladins. Thematically speaking, I think Nightborne capture the “vibe” of the Paladin class (the term “Paladin” is actually french), perhaps a sort of “Church of Eternal Starlight” or something added to Suramar?

  • I don’t think Humans or Mechagnomes are really appropriate for the “Hunter” class (the class being more than just “can fire a gun”, it seems to imply a deeper connection to nature and wild animals)

  • Goblin Shamans have never sat right with me. I’ve never enjoyed their gameplay, but LOVE their lore, and it undermines their lore to allow Goblins to wield the Elements, especially since their culture is almost defined by their capacity to destroy nature.

  • Death Knights should really be scaled back. Absolutely none of the Allied Races or Pandaren fit, and I would honestly say they should be restricted to Humans, Dwarves, and maybe Draenei for the Alliance, and Undead, Blood Elves, and maybe Orcs for the Horde.

  • I’m already going to be burned at the stake at this point, but I honestly still think it was actually quite interesting that Blood Elves couldn’t be Warriors when they were first added. I think that would be a meaningful restriction, which I might also apply to the Void Elves, and possibly even Nightborne (less sure on that last one, though).

  • Draenei and Tauren Rogues. Neither are culturally appropriate to these races, as both races are too honorable (borderline naive) to really have assassins and thieves in their midst.

  • Gnomes are very clearly not spiritual, so I would say that Priests don’t make sense. Goblins… I actually feel like this is one subtle distinction I endorse, because I could absolutely see Goblins having some fear-mongering or holier-than-thou types of self-appointed “spiritual leaders”. Honestly, kind of a perfect example of where those restrictions can help inform more subtle differences in culture.

Those are really the main ones. I’ll admit, I might also consider knocking Zandalari Druids if it were me (since I feel the Darkspear would be more likely to get Cenarius’s blessing than the Zandalari), but could go either way.

Either way, I think the idea of just totally throwing open the gates for “everyone to be everything” just undermines the idea of race or class choice actually being important. I love WoW because I want to immerse myself in the world Blizzard created. I like feeling like my Paladin is part of the Silver Hand, or my Death Knight does have some kind of connection to the events of the Scourge in WC3. When you totally divorce those things for the sake of “having more options”, it ultimately just makes the options themselves less interesting.

Just my two cents.

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Old school logic that benefits no one but the people who think restrictions on others are good.

Dragonflight is evidence that opening up restrictions is a good thing. And I’d like to see more.

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Ah yes, the pure fiction of the human hunter. Humans? Hunting animals? A fairy tale, I say. The very idea!

Any race that has at least one meat-based dish should have hunters.

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There are even human hunters that have animal companions. Dogs come immediately to mind. From deer, to wolves. Bears to lions. Badgers, hares, fowl of all kinds; if there’s an animal out there, there’s a breed of dog specifically bred to hunt it.

Falcons, hawks even eagles in Mongolia are used. In china there are fishermen who use cormorants to collect fish. There’s even one lunatic on Youtube that uses mink to hunt rats. Hunter is one of the classes in WoW that actually exists in reality.

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There just really comes a point where people complain about these things not because they care about the world building, but because they simply don’t want the world to be built up at all. All change is bad, and the story sucks because doesn’t fit stagnant headcanons.

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To be fair to the OP he went ahead and suggested a few additions he’d like to see.

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im just gonna cut through the long winded bull

you want races to be locked to certain things because it doesnt fit what you think they should be or think they are

culture is and always has been fluid. culture changes and shifts over time. culture may lose things and gain things

just because you think races and cultures should be some monolithic entities that all think and behave in singular minded way does not mean that is how people in those cultures actually behave

little history lesson too in warcraft 2 tides of darkness, many many orcs, trolls, humans, elves, dwarves and gnomes worked together for a common good. you think that all this time spent around each other hasn’t changed all of the cultures of all the races? if your answer is yes then idk what to tell ya. maybe make your own story the way u want with one dimensional characters and classes

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Gameplay > graphics > lore

It was great when they gutted every class in WoD for “class fantasy” right? Now my MW is an immobile turret with no smart or interesting abilities. Such fantasy, much wow.

There should be no restrictions, I should be able to create a blood elf alliance druid.

For a community that QQs so hard about IRL SJW drama, WoW is like the most racist ingame game of all time.

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Unfortunately most people from like 30 years ago have literally died off so now the game has new blood and so old school logic doesn’t work .

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Ehhhhhhhhh. -sleepy- I’ll try my best to string thoughts together.

Night Elves have cannon lore with arcane magic. They separated themselves from arcane magic after the well blew up. It took a very, very long time for them to open back up to arcane magic. I don’t blame them.

Orcs are capable of understanding different magics. Their roots are based in elemental magics, but they’ve been exposed to fel, the light, and arcane. It’s not out of place for them to pick up arcane.

The same goes for Tauren, who are not only masters of nature and the elements (druids and shaman), but are also light touched (priests and paladins). It’s also not out of place for them to pick up magic.

I’m going to have to disagree here. I don’t think we’re ready lore wise for demon hunters to open up. They’ve got their roots in fel magic, but are also not trusting to those outside of their circle. They give up much for their abilities. I don’t see them opening up and sharing just yet.

Interesting idea, but I’m not sure if they’ll be accepting with the light as their people suffered under the effects of being arcane starved. And following the light is leading them to another strong magic source. Nightborne are strongly linked to arcane. I could see a new class for them though.

I disagree here. Humans are always the basics. They are your swiss army knife characters when it comes to role play games. Humans are typically average all around neutral and are able to pick up a class and run with it. Like in dungeons and dragons. It’s not out of the ordinary to see Humans with animal companions.

Mechagnomes were separated from us for a long time. Their going to adapt to what they can do and building things is what they do best. Their companions are built. It’s why they start with knowing how to tame mechanical pets.

Goblin Shamans are more of they want to master the elements and not work with them. Look at their totems. They’re mechanical. The history with them and the elements is always that of industry. They want to control.

Allied race DKs came from Bolvar. He’s the one responsible of bringing in more members to the original DKs. I’m fine with this since it’s a story plot with Bolvar.

Player characters couldn’t be warriors, but NPCs were. The guards around the city scream warrior to me. It just fits. A warrior is still going to fight and defend just like a paladin would, but each culture is going to express each class differently. We also see warriors with the Nightborne when they’re introduced. And Void Elves have their own. Why restrict a class that is pretty open a lot with different cultures in role play games. Where would Cyrodiil be with out their guards in Oblivion? Warriors take on many forms from very ornate armor to others.

Love my Tauren rogue. There are some Grimtotems with the Tauren right now in the lore. Though the trust between them is very rocky. I can definitely see rogues. And after Legion, I’m sure the Profit Velen welcomes more security and an information network.

Gnomes have spirit. They also have knowledge of magic. I can 100% see them have priests. They do have a city to get back and people to heal. They need all the healers they can get lorewise.

Okay. I am going to have to strongly disagree. In BFA we’ve seen the culture of the Zandalari. They are strongly connected to nature and worship their Loa. Their loa works with their druids. They take on dinosaur forms (and that’s freaking amazing).

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Rogues are also spies and scouts, of which every race has need of.

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I find the idea that the inclusion of race/class combos itself inherently diluting racial identity to be asinine. Furthermore, I find the notion that restricting these things inherently preserves or promotes racial or cultural identity to be equally asinine.

If there is a problem to be observed, it is with presentation, not inclusion. The inclusion needs to be supported with elements that inform the nature of their status. You learn next to nothing about how the classes available to a particular race pertains to them narratively on their own. Instead, one is informed by the aesthetics of racial units, trainers, class quests once upon a time, immersive texts and similar materials. These are what establish and preserve what little lore is tied to particular combos, not arbitrary mechanical prohibitions.

Addendum:

To give some examples of what I’m getting at, consider the implementation of my class, Monks. Player Monk lore is heavily tied culturally to the Pandaren, yet nearly every player race can be one. Barring the anomalous cases of several masters at the Peak of Serenity, most, if not all, Monk trainers are Pandaren; arguably informing perceptive observers of those aforementioned cultural ties. It does not dilute the identity of any other races able to be Monks. It is made nakedly clear they are learning from a foreign source. There’s no reason something like this couldn’t be done any other class in relation to any other race; to some extent it already has been in some more obscure cases.

Some of the old class quests, particularly the earlier ones in race specific regions, would sometimes include tidbits that made mention of racially specific traits related to the class. One case of this in the Dwarf Paladin quest ‘Consecrated Rune’. Both the original and Cata era versions of the completion texts mention the Humans’ part in the Dwarves’ adoption of the Holy Light and provides insight on at least one Dwarf’s disposition towards the related traditions maintained. You get none of this from a mere character creation choice. You merely get people wondering why certain choices are locked away. The denial of choice means nothing to the uninitiated, the uninformed, and teaches them nothing. Without active support from the setting, there is no meaning.

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You can pry my magic moose that shoots magic mooseile out of my cold dead hands.

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I’m sure Blizz will get right on stripping people of their characters because you personally do not like them.

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I agree with much of what you say. I don’t think paladins fit with Nightborne though.

The only way that class/race combinations could be fixed would be to no longer allow the creation of new “bad” combinations. Then the existing characters would be left alone.

I’m glad to read your post. It makes me feel better that I’m not the only one concerned with cultural homogenization.

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The thing with Kaldorei is that the allowed the Highborne back into society. Thougb i will say that for non Light worshipping races they should have their own specific cultural aspects.

Like Night Elf priests and Paladins should have skills that derive from the Moon.
Tauren should be sun.
Trolls would be whatever Loa they choose. (Kinda like how you would choose a deity like GW2’s humans)
Dwarves would be the Titans if they follow that path
Gnomes would be Titans or whatever gadget they made.

Now with demon hunters void elves should get them…with the quel’dorei customizations. Makes sense. Also they can use fel with the warlock spec.

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prefacing my response with the overarching, personally-held opinion, that its less believable that all races arent capable of all available abilities (on and off azeroth), be they magic or melee, unless the restriction is a special case.

what you and the original developers appear to be saying is, a special case can be made out of literally anything, some examples being - culture, spiritual, physical or mental capacity, prior events (lore), height, foot type, place of origin, and etc. none of the those have to be a limitation because all the character has to literally have is the capacity to learn new things and the desire to overcome any limitations to that realization

perhaps the situation can be resolved by calling unusual race/class combos by new names with a couple new signature flavor abilities, and with former trainers of the original class, training new recruits. examples being illidari soldiers (for non elf demon hunters), abyss knights for void/shadow based paladins (for void elves, nightborne, and all other races), and so on.

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Wow that’s pretty exclusionary of you. What about the races that buy their meat from the supermarket?

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Lol, you a college student? You wrote an entire book while you were sleepy lol