The 25% damage nerf in WSG actually harms the meta more than it does good.
The buff, due to not affecting pets, has made BM hunters (a tanking spec by design) S tier in BGs. It also has made priests the #1 class in WSG due to their crazy HP/S turn outs.
Removing the barrier will elevate all classes equally while nerfing the two most broken classes in WSG. It’s a win/win scenario.
They need to increase health pools by ~25% which has the same effect of creating room to play without getting insta-killed, but more health means each heal is a smaller % of the whole, i.e. it takes more mana to fully heal any given person.
When everyone deals 25% less damage but heals are the same everything is out of wack.
If they just added the 25% nerf to hunter pets in bgs, and also had it apply to heals, it would be fine.
Blockquote but more health means each heal is a smaller % of the whole
I disagree, throughput would still be balanced around heals being stronger than damage, the overall time to kill would still be inflated. The same thing applies to damage as well, your damage spells are dealing a smaller % of the whole life. That is what we are seeing now except it’s only effecting damage and not healing.
Increased time to kill favors healing because dps/CC falls off and there is room to reset.
They could do it that way, but I think its the lesser option. The new gear they add which is already what want/need/use in PvP should just give more stamina, similar to how PvP gear endgame gives more stamina. Improves PvP across the board instead of WPvP and BGs having different rulesets like retail. And since dying in raids is usually more of a function of healer mana and mechanics than it is your max health, it doesn’t really change PvE that much other than making them a bit more forgiving once you have the raid gear, which is already the case.
Neither system is perfect, I realize. But things inherently doing different damage in different types of PvP just feels bad. Ruins the coherent feeling of the world.
I disagree, it would still not be fine, it’s a retail feature that has no place in classic EVEN in SoD. PvP scaling is terrible and removes the player power we grind really hard for.
100% agree.
And even in concept it is a bad idea.
I really wish the devs would spend more time with the vanilla pvp community before putting in things like resil, ghost damage nerf, etc.
There are actually reasons why many good gamers have been playing on pservers and then classic, SoM, Era, etc. for nearly 20 years. The pvp in the game is amazing as you get to higher skill play.
Edit - before some PvP noobs comes in here and says ‘VaNiLa PvP iS a UnBaLaNcEd SiDe GaMe’, realize that every class has a role to play and nothing is OP, when taking into account all the phases it is insanely well balanced. You are probably just bad pvp player if you think that. And no your retail glad title doesn’t mean anything to me.
the -25% hurts casters more than melee too, melee do a constant stream of resourceless damage when they are ontop of someone and casters burst people, casting spells is such a detriment in sod its unreal, its instants or get lost, the DpM of your spells being reduced by 25% is a huge nerf
That’s not an issue though, thats the goal. Its a more consistent way to make sure everyone is being affected equally. If average health goes up, and mana stays the same, healers feel it.
Both ways achieve roughly the same thing, its just that the health route maintains cohesion of the game. Its not a abunch of random rulesets based on what your’e doing like retail.
What you are saying is mathematically and objectively false in pvp where relative values between healing and damage are what matters.
If you give everyone 33% more hp you have nerfed damage and buffed healing. Why is this the case?
Prebuff you had a certain ratio of damage to healing to healthpools.
damage
damage is 1.3
health is 1.0
healing is 1.5
Healing is overall much stronger than damage, but damage is erasing health before healers can react and heal, enter WSG 25 resilience.
with resilience what we see is
health stays 1.0
damage drops to .975
healing is still 1.5
damage to health used to be 1.3 : 1.5
damage to health is now .975 : 1.5
As a healer you see an empty healthbar and your spells are still doing the same amount of healing, but the blood, sweat, and resources that goes into the damage you just healed was far more costly post-resilience nerf.
What you are proposing is this
damage is 1.3
make health 1.3
make healing 1.8
health increased 30%, so you want to increase healing 30% to keep the abstract (% per heal) in line
But look at what you did to the ratio of damage to healing, it’s the same problem as before
damage of 1.3 vs 1.8 healing.
In my model healing was 15.38% stronger than damage
In your model healing is now 38.46% stronger than damage
This is on top of increased health pools which means the meta needs to shift to hard CC and extremely unfun high burst.
I have ~3k honorable kills and plenty of WSG games. If everyone had similar health to what way of the earth shamans had right now but there wasn’t the -25% damage mod things would feel a lot better.
When I heal a WotE shaman I feel like their health bar moves a reasonable amount. When I heal other classes basically any button I hit is half their health.
Heal:Health:Mana ratio is bad right now and % damage mods do nothing to fix it. Keep mana where its at, and increase health a bit.
Things should do the same damage in all content, otherwise BGs just feel even more like bandaid-fixed minigame and less like a part of the whole.
They should eat what they baked.
The classes were totally fine and they wanted to mess around and throw a bunch of retail abilities on them. When you give everyone OP abilities - the pvp will become more bursty than vanilla pvp already is.
There’s no need to add HP / resiliance as modifiers, they can learn their lesson and hopefully tone down the OP abilities in future phases. (and perhaps add a bit more stam to gear).
Any kind of modifier that works only in BGs or resiliance gear, is going to lead to worse overall pvp.
uhhh, no, just health. Those are separate things that, believe it or not, don’t move together.
Exactly.
I’m sorry so your complaint didn’t make sense then.
“Healers feel it” Was this just a benign observation? Healing related to health would change because it would cost more mana to fully heal a person, yes. To be clear I never denied that.
It’s just if you increase damage, then increase health, then increase healing, all you did was give us more numbers bloat from retail. Not that you said that but now I’m not sure what you’re saying. Sometimes people give too short of explanations and don’t show intent.
a 25% increase in hp does not increase your effective health as much as a 25% decrease in damage taken
as far as heals go heals will be stronger with 25% reduced damage taken, but but not for the reason you’ve given.
“Getting deleted from everyside is better than being deleted the same way every time. Trust me.”
lol? Nonsense. They tank sometimes the same way warriors can sometimes tank in arms spec. It is not a tanking spec.
I’ve 7/7 off tanked BFD multiple times with full BM build. SoD and Classic aren’t the same thing.
And? So have I, and several other Arms warriors and Ret Paladins that put on the right runes.
Blizzard clearly did not want people to miss out on content due to group composition this phase and left things loose.
Lmao hunter pets are like the third best performing tanks in the game lmaooo