Compilation - Blizzard's Lies 2

[Verlius-kiljaeden (Verlius)]

I think it was good for you to repost this thread, and honestly if these forums have become so Orwellian that you get punished for it that is a dire sign.

[Darethy-ravenholdt (Darethy)]

I think it’s good you posted this, these need to be highlighted. At the same time I agree with Saiphas, these aren’t really lies, I don’t think so anyway. I just think Blizzard doesn’t understand how important ACTION is with determining morality.

I for example, actually sympathize with many of Hellscreams motivations. I still think what he did was HORRIBLY evil and leapt at the chance to drive a knife into his back, but I understood his viewpoint. I’d be lying if I said after we killed him in Nagrand, a part of me didn’t want to jump Thrall for making him this way next.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

I posted support in the other thread. I do so here as well.

Whether anyone can view them as lies, or jokes, or misdirection…accountability is the first step to establish a record.

If the lies are always forgotten and let go, we would never think of the second and third and tenth lie as a pattern.

But if we, as posters, make an effort to keep track, at least we have a thread to point to and say, “this wasnt the first lie. Or the second. Its the tenth.”

[Reignac-wyrmrest-accord (Reignac)]

For however much it’s worth I think the Garrosh stuff was more a case of plans changing than outright lying.

[Arlifrex-moon-guard (Arlifrex)]

I believe there are interviews where they said they always intended him to be a villain.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

There are 3 kinds of lies that Blizz has been telling players.

-They used to “lie” to us because they would get confused, or things would change between announcement and release.
-More recently they have purposefully been “lying” in lore and showing mutually exclusive events Alliance/Hordeside that can’t both happen, to try to make the players hate eachother.
-Then there is outright lying, where they don’t have the courage to tell the players that something the players will hate is going to happen, and on top of it, the players will have to wait months/years for anything else to happen. Garrosh’s MoP arc and their press about it for example.

[Zega-black-dragonflight (Zega)]

I wanna say one lie is worse than another but I feel like they’d all hurt about the same.

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

-Then there is outright lying, where they don’t have the courage to tell the players that something the players will hate is going to happen, and on top of it, the players will have to wait months/years for anything else to happen. Garrosh’s MoP arc and their press about it for example.

Courage?

lol

I don’t know why anyone would actually expect a company to tell people they might not like their product.

Courage has nothing to do with it.

That’s just plain bad business.

Instead they tell you that if you stick around you might like it.

Which is true.

Some people do like it.

Some people don’t care if a character is evil as long as they have understandable, if not admirable, reasons.

Some people don’t beat the drum of faction/racial pride and just take the story as it is without taking it personal.

Some people have been playing since Vanilla and don’t know or care about any of the quest text beyond what they are supposed to murder next.

Some people just like to drink the coolaid.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

I don’t know why anyone would actually expect a company to tell people they might not like their product.

Courage has nothing to do with it.

That’s just plain bad business.

One might argue that repeatedly lying to your customers about upcoming products would make them lose faith in a company and stop buying their products.

Of 20+ of my friends who used to play WOW, only 1 still does, and I’m floating along an a cancelled account. Most of them blame Blizzard choices for why they stopped playing.

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

One might argue that repeatedly lying to your customers about upcoming products would make them lose faith in a company and stop buying their products.

Show me the lies.

All I see is comments that are misleading, but only if you don’t pay attention to them or realize that some things are subjective.

[Éamon-proudmoore (Éamon)]

Show me the lies.

“Sylvanas is not evil.”

ordered the deployment of the Blight at the Wrathgate
executes any of her subjects that disagree with her
mass murders NE civilians by immolation
brainwashes a dead man to assassinate his own mother

I’m still waiting on evidence regarding her opinions of juvenile canines as kickballs.

[Arazlok-kilrogg (Arazlok)]

Show me the lies.

All I see is comments that are misleading

If you can’t understand how purposeful misleading is lying, there really is no discussion with you. We fundamentally don’t have a starting point.

You can say, well what are they suppose to say? Simple don’t take the question, don’t talk about the lore. Blizzard has used the “wait and see” line many times, they should just stick to that instead of misleading their customers.

Not paying attention has nothing to do with it, it’s about liking a character, and the hope for x character. If Blizzard purposefully encourages the hope for x character full knowing they are doomed, to me this is lying.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

I am not sure if its fair to say they are lying. The Story Dev team has been pretty vocal in the past that they often butt heads with gameplay and marketing teams. Their ideas are often stifled and/or shifted in a direction chosen for gameplay or marketing reasons, rather than lore and story reasons. So when the Devs say these things, they might have been telling the truth at the time, only to have their plans shot down.

[Arazlok-kilrogg (Arazlok)]

A major villain shouldn’t come out of nowhere and be a surprise. We plan our expansions out far in advance, so that we can begin foreshadowing and weaving narrative threads to connect them. Garrosh Hellscream is an example of a character born within WoW and built up to eventually become a major villain and then a catalyst that led directly to Azeroth’s confrontation with the Burning Legion.

This is the key here, which can still be argued if you want to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt. How early is far in advance? Blizzard comments on Garrosh stem right before Cata where it was in Cata he went down the deep end.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

This is the key here, which can still be argued if you want to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt. How early is far in advance? Blizzard comments on Garrosh stem right before Cata where it was in Cata he went down the deep end.

Honestly, I thought Garrosh was a well developed villain. I am in the minority here, but I saw him filling the future villain shoes back in Wrath. His progression is very typical as far as literary villains go.

[Malvalen-sargeras (Malvalen)]

So let’s say you (general you) and a friend are talking about a new movie that came out that has this really amazing twist ending. Your friend hasn’t seen it, but you have. You don’t want to spoil the reveal for them because it’s too amazing to comprehend. Somehow though, through sheer luck, they guess it, and it’s correct.

So what do you say? Do you tell them, “Yep, you guessed it?” That would be the truth, but it could also keep them from wanting to see the movie. Do you just say nothing? People have a tendency to jump to conclusions regardless of response, so it could still spoil the movie for them. Or do you try and twist your way out of it? “Maybe, maybe not. You’ll just have to see!”

Something similar happened with a TV show I really enjoy - some fans guessed the twist, and the producers of the show didn’t acknowledge that it was correct. Since the twist was revealed though, some fans of the show have started accusing them of lying - right, because they’re totally going to give away the story before it gets aired on TV.

I’m not saying that WoW’s writing is stellar, but to say that creators are lying when they’re trying not to reveal a crucial bit of story that’s planned for a later time is unfair. Everyone says they want more communication from Blizzard, but then they just get called liars because they provide information that either wasn’t set in stone at that time or because they were trying to keep from spoiling the story. Should creators just never talk about things they have planned, or about their work at all? Either way, creators in that situation cannot win.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

Honestly, I thought Garrosh was a well developed villain. I am in the minority here, but I saw him filling the future villain shoes back in Wrath. His progression is very typical as far as literary villains go.

Out of curiosity, and I’m only being half-snarky here, but are there any Horde characters that you don’t see as potential future villains?

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

Out of curiosity, and I’m only being half-snarky here, but are there any Horde characters that you don’t see as potential future villains?

Baine, Saurfang, Hamuul, Rokhan, Lor’themar, Gazlow, Thrall, Vol’jinn, Talanji… There are a number of Horde charaters that aren’t Villainous.

Garrosh, Sylvanas, Nathanos, and Gallywix are/where pretty shady tho.

[Arazlok-kilrogg (Arazlok)]

I’m not saying that WoW’s writing is stellar, but to say that creators are lying when they’re trying not to reveal a crucial bit of story that’s planned for a later time is unfair. Everyone says they want more communication from Blizzard, but then they just get called liars because they provide information that either wasn’t set in stone at that time or because they were trying to keep from spoiling the story. Should creators just never talk about things they have planned, or about their work at all? Either way, creators in that situation cannot win.

There is a difference between “wait and see” and

With all respect, you haven’t seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You’ve seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend.

When people want communication from Blizzard, it’s not spilling their stories, it’s about confirming what they’re actually saying.

And yeah I don’t think Blizzard should talk about the Lore anymore unless it’s just telling people what to expect.

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

“Sylvanas is not evil.”

Pick a Sylvanas thread.

Any Sylvanas thread.

You’ll find plenty of people there defending every single one of her actions.

Evil is in the eyes of the beholder.

Show me the lies.

All I see is comments that are misleading

If you can’t understand how purposeful misleading is lying, there really is no discussion with you. We fundamentally don’t have a starting point.

All I see is comments that are misleading, but only if you don’t pay attention to them or realize that some things are subjective.

I see now why you believe you were lied to, you only pay attention to the parts of the comments that suit you. Even if that means changing the meaning of a statement by chopping up a sentence and discarding the rest.