Seriously, a casual could pug a M+ 15 if there was any resemblance of balance or loot in it.
Well I mean part of that is down to what the game gives you to do. After youāre actually done with all the solo stuff, everything up to +5 is meaningless, so you donāt really have much choice except to start doing M+ or raiding. M+ is the lower hanging fruit, so thatās what people go for.
With Classic, itās a combo of the game having been scienceād to death and casual players getting pushed out. You canāt just find someone to do a chill scholomance with, you have to be doing big league stuff to find people to do things with, so people either quit or go big leagues.
Mythic+ drops 1 less item, and only if timed.
Non-mythic+ dungeon loot is unchanged, which I expect is where more casual players play.
Soā¦I donāt know if that adds up.
I think itās a 16 year old game.
Iām not in EQ forums, but do they have posts as well for why subs arenāt what they were near the beginning of its life vs now when itās over 20 years old?
This bears the question, is the Uber casual the minority player in both?
In most games the casual playerbase is significantly larger than its āseriousā counterpart. Thereās no reason to believe that this isnāt the case for WoW unless those players have mostly quit.
Perhaps a decent metric is the number of M+ posters on LFG, along with the number of guilds that have cleared up to normal/heroic at most. My gut feeling is that these groups consist of the larger group of players, but thereās obviously not much data to verify one way or the other.
For Classic, anecdotally there were a lot of casual players earlier on but like I said, theyāve gotten pushed out (especially on PvP realms, which went through the hell of Phase 2).
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How do you explain Classicās popularity then? M+ isnāt what is keeping retail alive lol. WoW is still a very popular IP, that is what keeps people coming back, that and new content for retail. The amount of players that need systems like M+ to keep the game interesting to them is probably rather small.
M+ is a system that was created to keep the progression addicts busy.
I think thats why so many big guilds truly hate LFG. It takes away their ability to police the game and push out casual players. If you werent a member of a major guild back in vanilla, you werent getting good gear. Knowing this, guilds could literally just force you out of the spec you want to play and there is nothing you could do about it.
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Regardless, the casual player doesnāt want to join a guild and commit to a raiding schedule.
There is has been quite a revival on Classic due to TBC coming. The leveling zones and dungeons are quite active with new players leveling.
It is interesting to see Classic still chugging along too, all the retail WoW naysayers said it would be dead in 6 months because Classic lacked systems like M+. Whelp, they have been proven quite wrong. I think TBC is going to be even bigger and might actually over take retail in terms of activity.
Retail is nothing more than a collection of repetitive mini games these days. The community is also completely fractured due to the extreme focus on trying to shoehorn players into content people really didnāt sign up to WoW to play.
I think thatās true for games, for a while.
Once games get really old Iām not sure it holds true anymore. Usually only the more dedicated players hang on.
For instance EQ or EVE online. Do you think the majority of players in those games are ācasualā players just putzing around right now?
Per raider.io more than 6 million unique characters have run a mythic+ dungeon so far in SL. Now, thatās not unique accounts because people have alts. Some many alts, some none. Either way that isnāt an insignificant number.
WoWprogress allows for a bit of comparison for US/EU guilds clearing content. More guilds tracked there have killed heroic shriekwing than heroic Taloc (Uldir) or heroic Skyorp (Nighthold). Last boss kills are a little lower, but Sire is a serious heroic boss so Iām not surprised.
EN was really easy and has about 30% more kills.
Although that may be skewed by post tier kills for the older content, inflating it vs CN.
Arena has been so much more popular they had to change their method of inflation because the brackets have expanded so much.
??? you know for a fire mage to work the tank has to play for him right ?
and every spec can do a +15 easily meta doesnt mean sh*t for low keys
Ok? I donāt see how that is related.
That is actually a reason why mythic+ was made in the first place.
Dedicated ā currently āseriousā though. Thereās no shortage of āretiredā vets who donāt much competitive any more, usually because changes in priorities or inability to commit to a schedule for what is, at the end of the day, just a game. Most longtime players like to take this route, if the game permits, rather than quit forever. I think that qualifies as dedicated, even if theyāre unable to shape their lives around it.
I was agreeing with you?
I probably just read it wrong, my bad.
This sounds exactly like a type of player mythic+ would be aimed at.
Easy logistics, small time commitment, and a range of difficulties so players who still want to push can do that.
You donāt justā¦forgetā¦about class mechanics and meta knowledge once you stop raiding.
Kind of. For true no commitments youāre looking at using LFG, which isnāt great. Guilds are only helpful for this if youāre consistent about when and how long you sign on, which is still something of a commitment.
Which actually is kind of an argument for improving the pug experience where reasonable.
What if I told you these systems can exist and you need not compete with anyone?
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