They could also just put it in front of MM, bm has to go over there anyways. Why rob a talent where its fine to put it elsewhere where thry could use a NEW talent.
Id rather have Wild Spirits return then have ‘accessibility’ for 1 spec.
You seen to have posters mixed up. Again.
I do not like NTA.
Unless you have some significant impairment preventing normal mouse usage, you do not “stop your rotation” to cast Freezing Trap. You simply swap out a damaging, 10-Focus Steady Shot for a 30-Focus Freezing Trap.
No matter how often you call it a purely ST PvP talent, in PvE it has a noticeable AoE benefit, as that is where the lost Steady Shot damage matters least and the added Focus most prevents bottlenecking Trick Shots.
I literally listed out the pros and cons for you. That there were more pros than cons does not make that evaluation “white-knighting” (which seems at this point to mean nothing more than “disagreeing with Ingvaronic”).
If you have a disability that prevents you from using your mouse and therefore traps efficiently, that sucks, and I sympathize, but that is not a worthwhile reason to remove them, or even just the option for Steel Trap, from everyone.
It would instead be a reason, as suggested earlier, to make it a choice node with a shot variant of the same effect, or to rework ground-targeted AoE to be macroed for use @target and for traps to snap when fired towards a particular target (via said macros).
Steel Trap itself is fine, and it is not what is keeping you from your beloved Wild Spirits.
That position would work too.
Not sure I want to see Wild Spirits in DF, it’s literally propped up BM in SL
How bout Wild Spirits that is a targeted spell? Like you set it on one target / mob and it cleaves off anything around it?
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Please no wild spirits / ground abilities… totally not what we want to be tied to again…
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I just want to let you guys know that I’m thrilled to see all the great feedback from you! (And, as corny as it is, I’m a bit proud too.)
I’m still treading water at my work… due to privacy reasons, I cannot disclose too many details, but things like 6+ IEP meetings in 4 weeks, serious cyber bullying, a near-drowning (let’s just say we’re thankful for CPR)… not to mention drama being stirred up by my team…
Yeah, I’ve been exhausted lately! But I’m so happy to see that all of you guys are carrying on with the fantastic feedback on here, the PTR, and the beta! 
And who knows, maybe I’ll finally catch a breather when Halloween rolls around.
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Then what is? Because imo steel trap isnt worth a capstone. This is why people find the hunter trees boring, is because of talents like ST. If you want to keep it, fine, but move it out of the way. Put it in second level or put it as option with hi-explosion trap. Let NEW EXCITING talents take hold in the capstone area, for everyone’s sake.
I think wild spirits would be better then steel trap, thats for certain. At least you only ground target once every 3 mins instead of once every 45 seconds.
I would LOVE THIS.
You dont want wild spirits bc of the ground targeting yet steel trap is there and you have to ground target 3x more then woth wild spirits. Trust me, most of us do NOT want ground targeted spells, even though some hunters are confused about the fact that traps are also ground targeted.
Blizz needs to do a better job with accessability. That is a no brainer. Many people have issues with using ground targeting spells. I, for one, have a disability that makes my mouse hand shake. Would it be better if we could choose for spells to be target casted instead of ground casted? Most certainly. Then i dont have to worry about accidentally pulling mobs. Idk why this hasnt been addressed yet, probably bc blizz is avoiding it. Idk, someone complains about a npc character being the wrong race kr gender they will change it next day, but a disabled person mostly inable to play the game bc of ground targeted spells? O well, maybe in another decade.
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No one is confused about this fact. The difference is that Steel Trap does not require the tank not to move enemies out of its area of effect; once triggered, it’s already inflicted the full effect.
This would be huge, but should be done via changes to macros rather than requiring every ground targeted ability to get a separate targeted version. There are advantages, after all, to ground targeting over direct targeting, even if situational and not worth avoiding direct targeting macros for their effects.
Let Volley, Flare, the likes of Wild Spirits, etc., all be directly cast via @target configuration, with preferential snapping outside of PvP (since the enemy’s ability to juke a mis-aimed cast is intended in that setting). Moreover, Blizzard should provide for a blanket direct targeting setting, similar to the new mouseover settings, by which to affect all ground-targeting attacks without needing to macro them.
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I kno the issue with movement in wild spirits and frankly that’s easily fixed with a target oriented wild spirits not ground targeted. The spirits would move with the target, and follow suit the same way starfall does with druids to prevent unnecessary mob aggro.
Yes, i feel the need for options much stronger then most when it comes to targeting options. I dont think there is enough clarity for using macros, tbh. Many people still have no idea what they are or how to use them. Others think its cheating. I dont see blizz opening up macros for targets tbh. They are extremely picky on what macros they allow and the target macro would nearly instantaneously become mandatory. Thats how much people dont like ground targets spells.
I suggest creating a new page in the options screen for targeting. You can choose if ground targeted spells get cast on the target, on oneself, or on the ground. You can choose if the spell moves with the target or not, you can inform players that you cant target unless the target is in view, and if the target dies toh can choose whether or not the spell dissappears, gets dropped to the ground, or jumps to the next target.
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It… wouldn’t be advantageous without a disability affecting mouse usage. In many cases it’d be faintly disadvantageous, even (though still a massive net improvement for those with manual impairments).
@cursor is generally the most useful targeting command for ground-targeting abilities because there are advantages to placing something at a specific area.
That would be fine too. Great, even. And much needed.
Ideally, though, even go one step further and allow players to create targeting schemas, similar to the trickle-down targeting used already in heal macros (mouseover > target > self, etc.) and allow players to easily attach those targeting schemas to whatever action they like (with the schema optionally denoted in the top-left corner of the action’s hotbar button).
- This would also allow for hybrid actions (Smite on enemy mouseover, Flash Heal on ally mouseover), which is something otherwise unavailable to players not familiar with macros.
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Have said this before in topics specifically about the covenant abilities. I would much prefer if they just left everything anima-themed in Shadowlands. If it’s about the mechanics and gameplay, I’d like to think that there are other ability themes more suiting of the class fantasy itself, rather than anything tied to the realm that is the Shadowlands.
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That would be cool, advanced, but cool. Most people wouldnt understand it.
I think if there were a few things that would substantially help right now they would be:
- Smart spells. Spells that prioritize hitting targets without the spell on them.
- Options for target casting instead of ground casting. Just as a temporary fix until blizz can roll out a full system. Reference what they did with DH sidgals as an example.
- Cone visuals! Its always a question if your going to hit a target or not. It shouldnt be that way.
- Aoe range visuals for spells such as SS and beast cleave.
These few minor advancements would take the game to a whole new level of targeting and visual aides that help the disabled see things better.
Nessingwary’s is getting removed so the impetus to spam traps is probably gone.
But Wild Spirits is not a good thematic ability outside of Shadowlands IMHO and I will not miss it, if they can just tune our damage profile appropriately I’m all set. I even played Venthyr the latter half of Shadowlands and preferred that.
Cooler animations for our button presses would certainly be welcome though.
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Besides just the nice burst it gave, it looked amazing and I will regret seeing it go. It had such an impactful visual even if the mechanic of placing it on the ground was frustrating as all get out.
Right now we don’t have any interesting looking spells outside of getting new pets (which are awesome) .
Death Chakram is okay but it doesn’t have the same intensity and it certainly doesn’t feel as impactful either.
Serpent sting looks okay but like cobra shot it’s not very flashy. Arcane has a small amount of panache but it’s not ever used by Beast Mastery.
Stampede again is going to be a dead talent from the looks of things, and it doesn’t use our own pets any more. 
I don’t want to see a bunch of random jungle creatures. At least it could use something from the area like dire beast some times does to make it visually interesting. But no, it’s always the same Gorillas, cheetah, and raptors from Stranglethorn Vale.
Barrage was updated recently so it still looks neat but again, rarely used due to how it pulls everything. Great for when doing old content where you can one shot everything, not so much for every day use.
and that’s it really. Everything else remains the same old same old as expansions past, or is a passive that has no or so little visual quirks you’d barely know they were there.
I just wish we could get something useful AND interesting looking.
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It was one of the reasons for why I chose to play hunter. I prefer more subtle animations and less of the “flashy” stuff. We all have our reasons, and preferences ofc. But for me, I really prefer to keep the hunter class about the actual use of the ranged weapon + pet related animations/attacks, rather than over the top spell animations.
That’s just me though…
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Are you suggesting that Wild Spirits be 3 minutes in DF because in SL it is a 2 minute cooldown.
My problem with Wild Spirits is that currently it is a “borrowed power”, Blizzard then added covenant leggo to impact it but target capped it to 4 which sucks because almost every M+ trash pull is 5-7 mobs. It will have stigma attached to it forever, as in every other class will be whining how we got to retain Wild Spirits, its OP, nerf hunters.
The other issue is the color, it never ceases to amaze me how many times a “bad” effect has same color as Wild Spirits, which makes for frustrating experience. Heck there is one mob I don’t even use Wild Spirits (that big mech spider in workshop) because with it down simply can’t find “safe area”.
I am digging the Steel Trap implementation, great example was slime boss in M+, trap big ooze with that, bam I can keep two trapped (frost trap the 2nd) in higher M+ key no worries.
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As it turns out, I did finish one of my goals! I posted a thread discussing class fantasy and spec fantasy. I’m going to leave it to “simmer” for a few days before going back to it and see whether I need to edit anything.
Man, I’ve been feeling so sad I couldn’t finish those threads back then, so I’m pretty happy to have finished this one! It’s easy to find — it has the super-exciting (hardy har har) title, “Class Fantasy vs. Spec Fantasy: A Look at Hunters.”
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I found your post well-meaning and without malice, and mostly agree with you.
I would only add that I believe the Classic Hunter is alive and recovering. Many will disagree with me over the details, but currently, the only Hunter that can wield both Ranged and Melee weapons, use a single pet, i.e: The Complete Hunter Arsenal, is the retail SV Hunter. It’s only that the melee-side of Huntercraft, which always existed, became the dominant mode of expression, which hides the real truth underneath.
TL:DR
I didn’t resub from a 15-year hiatus for RSV, nor for Legion MSV, purposefully skipping those more limited eras because they both got Survival completely wrong. One era, or the next, mistakenly focused on only a single aspect of physical damage expression.
When I saw the DF Talent trees, and they allowed for ranged and melee expression in the same specialization, bingo! That’s the Vanilla SV archetype. I returned for the fact that I can use the ranged sidearm and melee weapon at the same time, just like I did in Vanilla. It would be great if they expanded its capacity to include at a minimum Steady Shot in the future. Explosive Shot, Kill Shot, Concussive Shot, and Serpent Sting are a healthy return to form, but so is the return of Raptor Strike and Mongoose Bite.
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Holy moly this is a terrible take on Survival.
Ranged SV was far closer to the original model than melee SV. It got to that point in MoP/WoD through iterative design. It wasn’t some abrupt shift like SV becoming melee. Speaking of which, not using a ranged weapon is utterly alien to any form of classic SV; even to the very beginning.
No, SV’s current “usage” of a ranged weapon is not comparable. It’s an animation-only ranged weapon on some attacks while you’re otherwise made to fight with a melee weapon in melee range. You can equip a ranged weapon only at enormous penalty. You don’t even have access to some baseline Hunter items because of it. Once again; this is utterly incomparable to any classic SV iteration.
As a classic veteran, I don’t believe for a second the story you’ve told about being a classic player holding out for a “return of real classic SV”. There’s not a chance someone familiar with what Hunters were back then called it quits in WotLK or whatever and came back for this thinking “yep that’s about right”.
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Hmm. Would you mind going more into this point, please? Because currently, the retail Hunter can only equip a melee weapon or a ranged weapon… not both. The classic Hunter can, so I hope you can see why I’m puzzled by this point.
I just got home from work, so I’ll go do some house chores and get back to this later. I’m interested in hearing why you would say this. 
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