Given its CD, that means almost nothing if you’ve stripped all spenders outside of Serpent Sting (which, again, won’t be available til 53 or so) and Carve/Butchery (a dps loss in ST relative to your then-builder Raptor Strike).
I’d rather just have Lone Wolf for SV increase passive %focus generation heavily (instead of damage, unlike MM) and remove Pheromone Bomb from the Infusion possibilities. Finally, add a baseline pet Focus spender AoE (Swipe/Flail/Charge/etc). Change nothing else.
I wish they would just bring back flanking strike like it was in Legion for SV. No reason to even have KC IMO. But your lone wolf idea would be neat for people who don’t want to play with a pet. I personally love my pets as for me it fits the hunter fantasy (even with MM).
yes!
My contention is that it makes no sense that BM uses Barbed Shot as a focus generator and SV uses KC. As a master of beasts, you are commanding your pet to kill the target. Doesn’t that make more sense? Also, after some thought, I very much agree that abilties should be interchangeable. Either as “If SV, you get these instead (a la Muzzle)” or “If you have a ranged weapon, it’s this; if melee, it’s this.” But as I’ve said before, the latter option would never be implemented because, if given the choice, virtually noone would play melee.
Unfortunately, BS would still have to be ranged (no lacerate) for the same reason KC is executable at range: Blizzard acknowledges implicitly that SV has to be able to do damage and generate focus at range to function; evidenced by current KC and the need for a secret pocket crossbow to do SS and KS. Otherwise, EVERYTHING would be melee and all our “Shots” would be “Strikes.” The thing is, in order to commit fully to melee, the spec would need to match the minimum standard of other melee specs in that it would need some combination of:
Since the ranged verions of Hunter don’t need those because of, you know, RANGE, SV would essentially just be another melee spec, probably with similar damage application to a Sin Rogue with a pet. Why do that when you can have the worst of both melee and ranged, though? Big brain dev choices continue to haunt this class.
Why would it not make sense, though?
For BM, Kill Command thematically ought to be your big nuke. For SV, Kill Command would seem thematically meant to maintain momentum/uptime (for which Focus generation from range would seem fitting).
For BM, Kill Command offers only a reducible/resettable CD element. For SV, it also creates a weavable-to-mitigate-downtime element.
For BM, you’d expect it to be the highest hitting attack. For SV, you would expect it to be far from it, and for the melee skills to be superior.
Each fit their own contexts and themes… pretty damn well, actually.
They could always just do both. While within melee range, Barbed is Lacerate and deals significantly more direct damage. While outside of melee range, it turns into Barbed Shot.
Do the same for Muzzle/Countershot (lower CD if done from melee), Raptor Strike/Arcane Shot (10 less Focus and ~30% greater %AP, though no longer magic, if used from melee). Etc., etc.
That said, I’d also be fine with SV being more melee and just… having more decent melee damage and slightly more mobility. Right now, at least under meta builds, SV feels more like a bombardier with a pee shooter and a pimp cane.
You could spend it on Lacerate, You could have MB cost more = mastery means more. We dont really need two ST spenders. Bombs spend if i remember correctly. you could make a talent where butchery costs more = more damage. We are kind of limited with what we can do bc blizz refuses to admit surv’s toolkit sucks.
This of it this way, or two ways actually.
If blizz was intelligent, blizz would do this. it would leave a spot open for a second dot (lacerate) inside the basic toolkit.
However, instead of that your always fishing for stupid KC procs, dumping when you get full and hitting chakrums on cd.
I want lacerate back, but also be spreadable to nearby targets using carve/butchery.
Not going to happen. We can’t even get carve seperated from butchery, or we cant even get better aoe traits then +3 focus on KC or +10 focus.
What? It could’ve been either. Either spread with carve or butchery
if we cant get cheaper sstuff, what makes u think we get more expensive stuff?
On a side note:
Whoever knows the writer for the surv review on wowhead, please tell them they are an idiot and instead of advertising for blizz should actually do a real review on surv. Thanks
KC, for SV, is a bandaid attempt by Blizzard to give the illusion that there’s a hunter+pet team. It’s just inaccurate. Strong hunter+pet bond was always the dominion of BM. What SV has is a focus generator and 2 CDs that are pet related, but the lion’s share [animal reference] of the damage still comes from the hunter. The pet doesn’t do anything in particular to allow the hunter to do more damage; it’s made artificially mandatory only because of the requirement for focus regen. AND, I could be wrong on this, doesn’t haste kinda make KC less relevant as expansions progress?
Honestly, it’s just weird to have an ability that functions so differently between specs. Imagine if Flash of Light was a heal for Prot and Holy, but it was a DoT for Ret. Like, what? I don’t think SV or MM should be using it at all. It should be specifically for the spec that, historically, has done animal stuff. You could then get a big chomp ability for BM by adding Wolverine Bite or something like that back into the mix.
It would make more sense if it was more melee, but as I said, you’d be looking at incorporating even more changes to accomplish that. All of those would have to be in the spec tree. And if they did the range/melee thing, or “if specced SV, these change to that” deal, at what point can you still call the spec Hunter? Is it just a pet that makes a Hunter a Hunter? MM’s out if that’s the case.
Well that just all depends on where it’s placed in talent tree, and the trees can easily be changed.
That has been a joke since legion. Wowhead class guides are trash tier
Man it feels so bad having to pick Bullseye to get to wind arrows as a pvper, it has literally 0 use… Wish they could make it 1 point, move it or maybe make it a choice node with the careful aim talent.
I see what you are saying, my problem with this is what the Devs should do, want to do, and can do. I think the easiest solution for a flayed shot mechanic would be to tie it to a like wise ability like Lacerate.
My further problem with linking it with KC resets is that KC already has other things linked to it.
Tip of the Spear
Bloodseeker
Quick shots
Fury of the Eagle
Bloody Claws
Spearhead
Coordinated Kill
All of those are linked to KC already. This is what is contributing to the two button rotation. Adding more things to KC, especially a reset, would continue to feed into that same problem.
As it is now our Raptor Strike/Mongoose bites have next to 0 interactives. “Raptor strike now does X when Y happens” outside of Spearhead and Vipers Venom. They are the only things that affect RS/MB other than flat damage increases.
Add in Lacerate. Add the flayed shot mechanic to a talent. Then you add in those other pet passive damage increases from BFA and tie them to Lacerate and now we have a 3 button rotation lol that is not tied to just Kill Command and Raptor Stikes.
Well since everyone here hates fun, excitement, power, synergy, context, direction, and themes in their class trees, here is the tree without most of it and at blizz’s abysmal damage levels.
I think I agree generally. Though to the point about the number of things tied to Kill Command and/or its resets, I think they’re in different rotations, so it’s not too overbearing.
Again, I think I agree but, there are two ways to go about making sure that the rotation isn’t just two abilities. First, we can add more active abilities that lead to different active abilities or feedback into the same rotational abilities we’ve already been using. However, we could also add more passive interactions that lead to different active abilities to move us away from that two-button rotation. It’s why I’m a little surprised, for instance, that they redid Viper’s Venom in the way they have where it just auto-applies instead of having that Serpent Sting proc with boosted initial damage, because it takes out a button to press in the single target rotation.
Side note: I think the new Viper’s Venom is a benefit in the aoe rotation, although it also takes out what I think would be a good feeling if you were specced into Hydra’s Bite and tossing a big Hydra’s Bite. That said, I think I want to use Latent Poison Injectors most of the time in aoe, but it’d be nice to have a little more flexibility on that. I really just want to have alpha access, or eventual beta access when things are actually fully implemented, so that I can get a sense for how this all feels, because for the moment, I’m just speaking to my best guess of how this will all feel.
Now, there are enough potential interactions with the single target rotation, what with a Flayed Shot mechanic, a free Mongoose Bite proc, etc that I do think Lacerate is a welcome addition to the single target rotation.
I think where I’m landing now is that I don’t want the Flayed Shot mechanic to be another active ability, especially another bleed or DoT that we’ll need to spread in an aoe situation.
So I like the idea of Lacerate being added to the single target side, gated by Mongoose Bite, and given a percent chance to proc a free Mongoose Bite, and then a separate Flayed Shot mechanic, that in my opinion would be best re-added to Kill Command resets.
Not really, no. The opposite, actually. As Haste increases, so does your proportion of filler abilities, which each cost more than your CDs (WFB) or effective CDs (Serpent Sting). Meanwhile, Haste doesn’t affect the CDs of your other Focus generators.
It’d literally just be adding, in effect, a shorter CD or Focus-efficiency bonus to the skill if used from in melee range. That’s it. Damage remains damage. Utility remains utility. Countershot and Muzzle are not fundamentally different.
Just a quick question concerning MM on alpha - does Wailing Arrow not silence other players? I didn’t know this was a limit on the legendary bow effect … that’s apparently carrying over to the DF talent.
Edit: Please “unwrap” the choice talent Explosive Trap / Intimidation and offer both as individual talents.
I suppose. It would just further muddy the waters about what defines a hunter as a hunter, though. I mean, I’m still confused about what that is now, ESPECIALLY SV. Can you tell me a class defining characteristic of Hunters?
Quick thought I had before falling asleep last night: get rid of Hunter’s Agility and make it a choice node that gives us back the AotT HoT from (I believe) Legion/the Torghast power that allows us to continue using abilities while it’s up.
So, I want to report Mist, that I did an extensive look into all the past rotational and cool-down talents that hunter has had over the years, and unfortunately for survival, there is NONE.
As far as I can tell, once blizz established the core elements to the spec, they never seemed bothered to add any new ones. The only two talents that have swapped are the removal of Lacerate and the inclusion of Fury of the Eagle.
What it seems like is that MSV was never a successful spec so they never bothered to add new talents and rotate out old ones as they have done with every other spec (the closest one being feral). Another reason for this, which someone pointed out so wonderfully above, is that Blizz is cheap, so they rode on the coattails without investing in making survival any better.
So, in response to your call to list old spells for survival, I cannot list any since there is none.