Community Council discussion on Hunter design

Classes Hunter
346

Class tree needs (priority order):

  1. More defensives nodes, Rejuv winds is trash, and +4% avoidance is laughable.
    Look at the shaman defensives for example - you can choose for stronger DR vs. longer DR, these are good choices to make for specific scenarios.

  2. Raid/party wide buff or utility. Hunter is the only class in DF without a raid/party buff or utility. Some classes have MULTIPLE and we have 0.

  3. Passive DPS increases, there’s a lot of “press this button on CD” spells, the devs acknowledged the latter, but we’ll see if they add in DPS passives in.

2 Likes
347

they need to scrap everything on MM and just remake the spec. ever since BFA it has just become a boring spec where people think “hopefully its not too good so i can just keep playing BM”.

wrath, cata, mop, wod, legion, ALL better versions than this MM.

7 Likes
348

Just learn to be melee…end of problem

3 Likes
349

The marks tree is still pretty boring. The lack of options is so much less than some of the other classes. In 20 minutes I was basically done and had 2 builds, 1 for st and 1 for multi, that will probably never be changed for the entirety of the expac. There just wasn’t enough diversity in the tree to make more unique playstyle altering choices. The biggest decision i see is do we take rapid fire or not? They’re just not very exciting.

I think a big part of the problem is the amount of points that are pretty much required in the top gate of the tree. Taking rapid fire has me putting 15/30 available points in just the top tier. With Lone Wolf being moved to the top that could be 16/30. The amount of throughput nodes that while not very exciting, +crit chance or +damage, they will likely be mandatory. The focus nodes will definitely be mandatory to avoid being completely starved.

Then you move down just 1 more row and there’s more exciting damage increases. These too will probably be mandatory because like it or not, when the balance passes come through, they will be adjusted with these talent nodes in mind and the base numbers will be adjusted accordingly.

This leaves us in a scenario where marks hunters have to spend 20/30 points in the top half of the tree, with the most interesting ability we’ve picked up is Rapid Fire, a current baseline ability. The ability to branch out toward the bottom of the tree and make interesting build combinations is completely negated by the bloat and point requirements required at the top.

Talents like Improved Steady Shot are just required and shouldn’t exist. 2 points for Improved Arcane Shot is in this same catagory. It could easily be baked into Precise Shots. These 2 changes alone would turn 5 mandatory points into 2 and be a good start.

Talents like Steamline, Careful Aim, Killing Blow, Hunter’s Knowledge, and Focused Aim all being 2 point talents is also unnecessary. They’re just crit/damage increases that are boring talents and don’t justify the amount of points they require.

There’s also not a lot of interesting talents throughout the tree. In the 17 years of Hunter development there are a ton of interesting options that would go great in today’s iteration. Things like Readiness and the old version of Rapid Fire, resetting cd’s and big haste buffs would be nice. Effects like Expose Weakness from the old Dragonstalker set would make for a nice raid buff. Those are a few I would like to see make come backs.

I do love the communication and effort being shown by the devs thus far. Gives me a dangerous level of hope that some of these issues get hammered out.

7 Likes
350

Pretty much agree with everything here. The MM tree just feels uninspired. There are a whopping 9 entire talent points devoted to passive increases to Aimed Shot damage. Looking at the different “builds” you can go for, there’s going to be virtually no change in actual gameplay. If you take Wailing Arrow you press that every minute, but if you take Salvo you press Multi Shot every 45 seconds. Kill Shot resets is hardly a worthy differentiator between possible builds.

Like, where’s Readiness? Focusing Shot? Black Arrow? Sidewinders? Aspect of the Fox? Who is taking Bursting Shot the entire expansion? Is Chimera Shot going to see play on more than one boss over the next 2 years? What is Heavy Ammo doing; is exactly 3 target stacked cleave really a niche over what MM already does?

4 Likes
351

100% Agreed! I hope the dev team sees this and take in consideration the feedback given as they continue to do a great job in communicating with the community https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-hunters/1279513/148
As they said there are 17 YEARS of hunter class design in WoW and the current tree we have does not make it justice especially when you have trees like the Shaman, Rogue and Warrior that look fun interesting and exciting whereas ours feels mediocre and shallow

3 Likes
352

What is crazy about that 17 years is that nothing much has changed while many classes have received spell effect updates and not to mention new spells that add life into the class.

Id like to see the devs add some new zest into hunter class with multiple playstyles that encompasses what hunter/archer fantasy type means to them, everyone and their mother has been begging for ranged survival gameplay that could easily be added into MM as the solo/lone arcane archer archetype or just big hitting regular archer type (people dont want to deal with pets), the current state of MM with bleeds and hard hitting hard cast abilities could also remain and then an aoe side of the tree that would give MM what everyone wants while keeping the time investment for revamping or adding a 4th spec.

BM is in a fairly decent spot, thought the zoo keeper gameplay needs to branch off for a playstyle from the old BM of just you and your single bonded pet; this would be similar to MM i suggested above, creating some options for what the hunter community has been seeking for years. (also personal matter, but i wish cobra shot had a glyph to turn it into a normal looking ranged shot, i cant stand the zig zag green shot for BM, makes no sense to me, i just want my simple BRK BM hunter back)

Survival still needs an identity as its a newer spec design, but so far it seems ok, just needs some tree tuning and such, but id like to see some variation option of gameplay that exists with MM and BM concepts mentioned above. Id like to see a hybrid melee BM “rexxar” survival melee gameplay style, then a bombbuild aoe, with maybe a hybrid middle tree with current surv gameplay style. (also when dual wield for surv, actual or transmog/glyph?)

I hope the right blizzard people are reading and watching these forums, because when people get the right class design gameplay that they want or “identify with”, people tend to stick around and play the game without getting burnt out of playing something that they dont really like and dont have too many other interests in other classes. Ive been real active in the forums and on wowhead reading up on this new expansion in hopes that it keeps my interest and i can return to wow and be interested in playing for more that a few months at a time, for the first time in a good couple of expansions.

353

I really like Bursting Shot, it is helpful for keeping things out of Sanguine, for helping to group an add that is out of the pile, and for helping the tank to kite. But right now I really find it hard to put a point into it as I’m directly giving up damage, and often due to placement I’m having to give up a significant talent for it. For instance I’m giving up LocknLoad, or Volley, or Salvo, or Wailing Arrow, or Light Ammo, or Surging Shots, there isn’t a good way to get it without giving up something good which means I’ll probably never take it even though I’d like to have it.

I don’t like Chimera Shot, and I don’t think it works with the way MM is designed right now. It frankly just needs to be entirely redesigned to fit with the way MM is constructed.

Heavy Ammo is such BS, particularly because they don’t want to give us 2 target cleave. So Heavy Ammo is purely 3 targets, no more no less. Outside of a council boss, I really don’t see a situation where its worth taking. Perhaps there’s a dungeon where you have a ton of 3 pack pulls where you cannot combine pulls, but I don’t think that will be a thing.

2 Likes
354

Id like to see them add in a talent line down the right of the current MM tree that can throw chimera over there with an old ranged survival type gameplay option, then straighten out the middle of the tree for bleed/hard hitting physical/aimed shot style of MM we have had since legion.

They need to get rid of the aoe cap stuff, 2 or more targets, not 3

355

I have mained hunter for 15 years and I honestly feel very unmotivated to play hunter due to their lack of options in the talent tress at the moment. I spent about 2 hours trying to make different builds, but I always ended with the same build on the Class tree and 2 different builds for each spec ST/AOE…that’s it. Why are hunters lacking options to choose from? Why I cannot get creative with my talents like many other classes can do right now? It’s sad to see that even the new class has more talents than a 17 years old class. Hunters have a lot of history and talents that can be added to make the class feel interesting and fun.

Last build Explosive Shot was merged with Barrage, thats 1 choice less. Chakrams removed and Death Chakrams merged with Stampede, another choice less. Scatter with Binding shot, another choice less. I thought the new talents revamp was all about allowing the players to have choices and be creative with their classes. Doesn’t feel that way with hunters.

MM spec currently has a bunch of flat dmg increase talents, I would prefer to take an interesting/fun talent over a dmg increase anytime, at the end, it’s all about how we feel playing the class and not just numbers.

BM is now just summoning a wild safari over bonding with your pet (friend) to be the best. I just don’t feel the connection there anymore.

SV is not even a survivalist because they don’t have any defensives, so…yea. Change the name idk. See other melee classes defensive tool kit and compare.

At this point, nothing can make someone pick a hunter over a shaman, for example, shamans bring soooo much to the team while hunters currently bring… nothing. If we are playing as a team I want to feel useful and helpful at least.

3 Likes
356

Not sure anyone wants to see it come back, but I’d like a 4th final tier talent: Powershot… perhaps off the Legacy of the Windrunners talent, I don’t know. Also, might be nice to swap Serpentstalker’s Trickery & Wailing Arrow. I get the feeling that an easier to achieve Wailing Arrow would be welcomed from most quarters.

1 Like
357

I agree, Powershot had an extra effect that made it useful in some situations and different. I also don’t like having to take Serpentstalker’s Trickery to use Wailing Arrow, I feel like having Serpent Sting as a button feels better than shooting it automatically behind an Amied Shot, sometimes you just want to dot something without having to cast for 2.5sec without moving. Taking Serpentstalker’s Tirickery makes the point in Serpent Sting to feel like a waste tbh.

1 Like
358

Good news, you still can.

In SL, yes, but not so in DF - taking Serpent Sting is a requirement to get to Latent Poison Injectors or Hydra’s Bite.

SST should be a single point though.

1 Like
359

warrior talent tree making hunters look like they came out in BFA. cant believe hunter’s getting shafted 4 xpacs in a row.

6 Likes
360

Please stop. Ranged Survival and MM do not gel and MM should be it’s own thing, not home for a spec that was deleted. There is a lot Blizzard can do to focus on the sharpshoot/archer fantasy without diluting it with what RSV was.

11 Likes
361

Honestly, i would love to see blizz take sniper shot from pvp talents and add it as an option for mm. Instead of increasing range, have it increase dmg or something. Either way, have it hit like a Mac-truck and take like 2.5 sec to cast. Have the buff last 45 sec and the shot be on a 30 sec cd.

4 Likes
362

Im just stating that the quickest minimal work for blizz devs is to try to add rsv gameplay into MM in such a way that we actually get the spec gameplay back, because im sure the devs are not going to create a 4th spec for rsv or modify survival tree for it.

Ideally, yes id like to see rsv have its own spec, or for them to move “melee survival” to its own spec and make survival its old ranged spec again. But at this point im guessing its near impossible for that to happen in the current development time frame, would be great though, thats where my comments are coming from

Nothing wrong with more variety in the hunter class, thats for damn sure

1 Like
363

No hunters have defensive, this isn’t a sv exclusive problem. Blizz has refused to give anything besides discount bubble and 2 min WoG.

4 Likes
364

Simple plug for returning pet specs. Maybe each family of pets has two choices; for example let clefthoof choose ferocity or tenacity, but not cunning because that makes sense. Hyena cunning or ferocity but not tenacity, etc.

Long shot, but it would be lore friendly while offering more customization/personalization.

365

This is just my opinion, but I think they went too far in defining the pet’s “nature” (setting it in stone)… instead its type should be something that’s trainable.

3 Likes