Even at 3 points, the chance of getting a proc is less then 3.75%. This means that you MIGHT get a proc once per 1.5 minutes or so. Its abysmal already, plus it doesnt fit the bomb side of the tree. Duo and fury should be the epitome of bomb play, not blizz’s intern’s fantasy of some old playstyle.
Honestly, the tree is minimal at best. Why doesnt blizz just create a new line closer to the mongoose side with duo and fury on that line? It fits better there anyways and add bomb cluster/mad bombadier in their spots. That would make for a great bomb side.
Even better idea is to delete coordinated kill and birds of prey and add duo/fury there. Either way, i still think duo needs deleted. Its just a bad talent.
I get not wanting to place a spell, i am not a fan of ground placed spells either. However, i think chakrums is just gawd aweful. I think if they made spirits/arrow target based instead of ground based it would be fine.
Lux did a good job in the CC forum.
He addressed the mm tree.
He called out specific nodes that are issues.
He explained why its bad to have the current setup.
He suggested a change or two but ultimately told blizz to rework the tree (this should be the go-to atm for SURV).
I hope someone does this for surv, i just hope they get everything and not leave out, say, garbo birds of prey, bc they personally think its ok.
We were heard!!!
Good job peeps!
Over tuned actually, sv has been viable this whole tier with the exception of nathria due to the bad tuning and lack luster single target dps. SV as a whole has always been a solid mythic plus spec, mad bombaier on top of its already uncapped aoe made busted.
Cluster not being on there is a problem but mad bombardier isn’t actually that great and encourages mismanagement of resources. It would be different if mad bombardier proced off of raptor strike, focus spent, or serpent sting damage, but if they bring it back and it procs off of kc and it ends up being top tier, i would throw things because its such a disruptive issue.
I’m really hoping during their next pass through of Hunter talents they consider moving Bease Cleave to the class tree. I love MM but I would love it even more if I was able to keep my pet out with me at all times. That one ability is the only thing keeping LW from being mandatory.
if you guys need some ammunition/talking points about SV, i suggest reading these posts by corbyn and cudgel, they give a pretty good outline of the issues with it
What are you trying to say? I’m genuinely having an issue parsing this.
Beast Cleave is BM, and has never been MM. Lone Wolf isn’t mandatory, it’s an optional talent 3/4 of the way down the tree and the only thing gated by it is Serpentstalker’s Trickery. If you want to play MM with a pet, play MM with a pet, if you run Ferocity your groups will be happy to have Bloodlust, and if you run Cunning and actually use Master’s Call to save party members they will love you.
There are quite a few abilities that once belonged to a specific spec that are now general Hunter class talents: Kill Command, Killer Instinct/Alpha Predator, NTA, Stampede among others. The issue is without a pet cleave, MM will always be at a disadvantage in AoE without Lone Wolf.
Yes, that much is true, but remember that petless MM also misses out on the leech/health/runspeed buffs, Bloodlust, Master’s Call, pet snares, Mortal Wounds, etc, not to mention having a pocket tank to soak hits from key adds. And if you call a pet temporarily to get that utility back, you need to waste time dismissing it, and then need to wait for Lone Wolf to stack up again.
I really like that Lone Wolf is an option for MM, and unfortunately I just don’t really think there is a way to balance it perfectly for both AoE and ST. Balancing as close to perfectly as possible for ST and accepting the utility trade-off for AoE is as good as it gets IMO.
Also, literally all the abilities you listed except Killer Instinct/Alpha Predator were class wide abilities before the massive pruning in WoD and Legion.
hi watermist i have a fan made survival hunter tree that is in picture form i would like if you can check it out and maybe post it in the forum to give idea to the dev it no where near percfect but its still something
------------------- Nimox fan club posting only below this line ---------------------------------
Serious note some of the CC discussions getting attention from devs have been slightly concerning, I feel there are many opinions being presented that show a lack of imagination or lack of experience in making combinations of talents work in real settings that I would hate to see influence our trees too heavily. Not necessarily saying the changes so far are terrible but hopefully they don’t continue so far as to remove meaningful decision making. Some of the posts seem to hold the notion that decisions on what the “best” build is should be simple and we should be able to easily talent into everything that is best for any situation with little to no hard choices, and I disagree heavily with that sentiement. If we’re intended to be able to lock down our “baseline” kit and still swing by and grab everything that looks good depending on the situation how different is it from our current talent system? To use a recent example, DT’s location in the bottom left of our MM talent tree felt improper to some but I obviously disagreed with their sentiment that it should be considered nearly baseline. It being so good right now that it’s considered baseline is something these trees should get us away from, since the tuning of the ability itself isnt dictating its power but also the sacrifices in the tree to get there.
Overall I’d just like to see there still be room for people in competitive pursuits be able to continue to compete not only in execution but in their prep of builds and theorycrafting in ways that shoveling everyone into obvious cookie cutter builds would destroy, so just throwing in my opinion that class designers should just go wild with their own ideas at this stage and be reserved to a degree to change things based on the earliest feedback until we see what a larger playerbase can come up with in practice with the trees as testing comes available to more players.
I don’t think we’ll see it go in that direction. Double Tap is a bit of an edge case, as it is important for both Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire builds, so having it inaccessible to builds that go heavy into Aimed Shot on the right side of the tree feels bad, like you’re only getting half the ability. Plus, the choice node Nimox suggested in the alpha forums sounds VERY interesting, much more so than Double Tap, and better suited to a capstone talent.
I think it’s important to consider that the forums are just one source of feedback from them. The problem with player feedback is that it’s biased. You advocated for what you think is fun and works well, while others do the same for themselves. What feedback is right?
Currently it seems that most people are focused on Evoker and the new dragonriding and the zone. I am a bit worried that these classes, hunter being one, that is the focus of this test phase will be neglected.
With that said, I guess it should improve when more people get into the alpha/we move towards beta. Currently it seems it’s a quite small pool of players and the focus is far from Hunters. With more people there will be more feedback.
It definitely seems to be a small pool, but given Hunter and DK are the only classes to get that kind of feedback in the alpha forums at this point, and there are more changes planned, I don’t think it’s fair to say the focus is far from Hunters.
I have nothing to go off other than that I’ve seen dozens of videos about Dragon riding and Evoker just today (reasonable but still doesn’t really indicate Hunter is being tested) and out of all the people streaming alpha today (checked sporadically) it’s been exclusively Evoker, with one exception for DK.
But it’s good that the Hunter forums are active and I love the replies (that he/she replies I mean) from Nimox in the Alpha hunter forums. Hope they keep it up when they increase the testing.
Hey guys, posting this here to hopefully get more traffic and therefore more feedback. I have posted a mock up of proposed changes for the Survival Hunter Talent trees.
DF Survival Hunter Talent Trees v1.2.
Do me a favor and go over there and give it a look and if you wouldn’t mind dropping some feedback. Positive or negative. I’m just trying to put forth tangible, visual solutions that hopefully make it into the eyes of the Hunter Class Team.
Thanks.
I meant developer focus, not player focus. Of course people are going to be testing the new hotness, alpha has been out for maybe 24 hours at this point.
Yeah it honestly Sounds like they are on top of how bad the survival tree is. We hear more concrete things about the other trees tho, especially MM. But I would guess that’s because how rough/early in development Survival is. It’s less about moving some things around there. They need to do some Real serious work on SV so might be more silent until they have more thorough changes coming.
Hope or Copium?
The CC thread and current alpha feedback thread is getting the most activity hunters have gotten in years combined and its the devs communicating with an absolute miniscule representation and obviously working off of and changing based on ideas they are posting. That along with it’s not even a matter of what I think there’s cases where they objectively mistate the usefulness of talent combos like serpent sting paired with serpenstalkers trickery, which saying one renders the other useless is just not a thing when considering how the spec would play without our 4pc currently giving us infinite aimed shots. That specific example had a change already made so it’s not like things can’t continue to go that direction.
I get what you mean. And I don’t know if I’m just assuming too much or being more trusting. But the large amount of response from the devs is good, always! But yes, the pool of hunters being actively testing at the moment seems small. Doubt the will lock anything the first 2 days of alpha testing though… skepticism aside it’s too early to start the “don’t say it’s alpha because then it will ship as is” is honestly too soon, especially as long as they listen.
With that said, I am prepared to believe they know More about how the class/spec plays and what feedback is null due to changes already done but not in the build, or feedback they’ve themselves had for weeks or months internally or how they actually envision it going.
I, as a complete noob in designing/development, would rather let them do the work and listen Slightly to feedback rather than let us steer the development. It’s a very hard balance to make. Gaming is full of flops/failed games where the devs have listened too much to the community.