Yeah if she had just killed Saurfang and said some kind of pro Horde statement and maybe even made some kind of appeal to the rebels she would probably still be Warchief. They were terrible at showing it but if she is able to make the majority of the Horde turn on their leaders, including Thrall himself, then she should have been able to keep her spot and continue her little plan. Hell, it would have made everything else she did even easier. Beating Bolvar, capturing Anduin,etc.
I mean, it is kinda the whole reason the rebellion Saurfang was leading started…
Was it though? I think it’s probably more accurate to say that the rebellion started because Baine was imprisoned, which was the result of Baine’s treason in freeing Derek Proudmoore. Teldrassil was almost completely irrelevant, narratively speaking, to the Horde’s motivations and story.
2 Likes
I feel like we watched two completely separate stories. The pre-patch events at Teldrassil was like, the majority of Saurfang’s motivation and what made him start questioning what he was doing, and it led to him giving up his life to the alliance at the battle at Undercity to Anduin’s mercy-which made Sylvanas ostracize him and him to start gathering people like Rokhan and the other rebels who weren’t okay with what Sylvanas was doing. This was a pretty major event if you ask me. Baine being captured was more the what gave them the opening to take action, if anything.
Though either way, saying it’s okay to kill innocent people in the horde is very clearly not something the current horde is trying to be about, so my main point still stands.
Depends on who you’re saying it to though, doesn’t it?
I wouldn’t say so. People can be sadistic with their characters as individuals or think it’s okay for them, but the actual group of the horde isn’t about that-I’d dare say they’ve never been. If they were no one would ally with them lol.
1 Like
Well obviously you gotta know your audience. If you get up on yhe Orgrimmar gates and scream “I eat babies!” you might get the side eye…
Yeah that’s basically what I’ve been saying. The people I was dealing with yesterday were basically saying such a thing was fine.
Literally…cannibalism was even brought up as something that is acceptable. It was bonkers.
< Glances at the general tab of his spellbook. >
< Snaps the book shut. >
5 Likes
We don’t talk about that.
(Also Thrall outlawed it to my recollection so probably just undead being quirky. 
)
“Outlawed”
< Gigglesnort. >
I think there’s some trolls who still enjoy finger sandwiches behind closed doors.
Sure, but behind closed doors is the point, it’s like you said. It’s not something you should be screaming about in the middle of the city.
Right. Right. Totally agree with discretion.
1 Like
Saurfang is not the Horde, for starters. Perhaps conspicuously so, given that Sylvanas enjoyed majority support right up to the point that she insulted the Horde and rage quit.
I will accept that for Saurfang, the death of innocents was the turning point. But he was literally the only character for which this is true. Baine himself is roughly on side with Sylvanas up to the point where she’s going to mind control Derek, at which point he literally says that this is now the line that must not be crossed. And even after Baine gets tossed in the slammer, the forces that rise are a distinct minority.
There is no narrative base to the claim that the Horde tossed out Sylvanas for killing innocents, and precious little basis to the claim that the rebellion rose for that reason. Just like in MoP, the rebellion occurred because the Warchief started to harm internal Horde interests and figures. The odd mega-death of innocent Night Elves is at best a footnote.
8 Likes
The quest where Saurfang has you go catch and release innocents was added late in the game, so I’ll always wonder how much of that was just hamtacked on.
I do think that the majority of people in the Horde would have vastly different interpretations of what innocent meant. I doubt the majority would ever frame their views as “It’s okay to kill the innocent.” They would just have a much narrower definition and they also probably have a much more narrower view of, even given innocents die, how much is acceptable.
2 Likes
I’d actually agree that the Horde isn’t “about” killing innocent people, but only because the Horde’s rabid nationalism + imperialism precludes the various Alliance races from being seen as innocent (or as people). Hence the death camps.
4 Likes
It’s metaphorical!
2 Likes
What was the second choice?
morally gray