Combined lock of Normal + Heroic modes of Trial of Crusader (and onwards)

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
1

Hello.

With the combined lock of normal and heroic modes in ToC, we have come to a huge problem that most of you have not realized: if you do normal mode on a given week, you’ll not be able to attempt heroic on the same week, and if you do heroic on the same week, you’ll be locked out of normal mode.

Well, what are the problems introduced with this change to WoTLK? (for example, OG Wrath and Retail have separate lockouts for their raids):

Limited attempts on Heroic Mode

You have 50 attempts to clear heroic mode. Every wipe or bad pull or miss pull is 1 attempt. If you are out of attempts, you cannot proceed further and your lockout is gone.

Considering majority of wow players, that means roughly 60-80% of the guilds that attempt Heroic mode on the first week Heroic Mode is available, will have nothing else to do other than: 10man heroic (or normal) ToC or go back to Ulduar.

This is a major drawback. between 60%-80% of the players (that is very loose estimation, it can be even higher, considered for example the amount of pulls some guilds took to kill Vashj (pre-nerf) or Muru (pre-nerf).

What could be done to help mitigate this?

Since the Classic team seems adamant regardless of community feedback on their stances, perhaps they could persuade another change that could help mitigate this problem:

→ Increase the amount of loot in ToC 10 man Heroic Mode and include the ToC 25 Normal loot table to the Heroic 10 man version.

What does it mean?

The first slot of the drop table from Heroic 10 man ToC bosses would drop their 10 man heroic items, while the 2nd and 3rd slots would drop items from the 25 man.

This addition would allow guilds t o split their 25 man run that failed on the 25 man heroic and at least help gearing their guild for another week attempt on the 25 man heroic.

→ Another option would allow guilds to switch to normal mode while inside of the raid and continue the 25 man raid with normal mode.

But none of these have been addressed by blizzard so far. A good discussion before the time comes would be great.

2

I don’t know why they combined the lockouts. If a guild wants to do do all combinations of 10/25 man normal and heroic in a week why does Blizzard care so much? I don’t get it.

3

The usual “We feel forced to do…” rather than taking responsibility for themselves.

1 Like
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Their argument is that everyone would feel obligated to run normal + heroic mode at same week.

I think that should be allowed, but I’m looking forward for options. You could have in the same week 2x the same trinket and give to 2 different persons, but now you’re very limited with gearing and possibly would have to go back to Ulduar or be happy with the 10 man heroic options.

5

ToC was the outlier compared to how lockouts worked and interacted with hard mode/heroic in Ulduar and ICC.

They are just bringing TOC in line.

6

“in line” to what?
Did you forget the 50 attempts on heroic mode?

7

In line with how hard modes were shared with normal mode in ICC, Ulduar, and Sarth.

Did you forget ICC also had limited attempts on all wing end bosses? Alagon had limited attempts too.

8

They said in an interview they were looking into letting you switch between bosses but it’s “difficult”. Obviously ICC will work this way since that’s how it originally was.

9

The scarcity means higher prices in GDKPs

handrub

10

Its bothersome that this actually makes sense. It seems almost all of Blizzards decisions always find some way to loop back to GDKP. I wonder how much money Blizzard is making selling subs to bot accounts to drive the RMT market.

11

Making TOC hard mode lockouts work like how ICC, Ulduar, and Sarth (aka all other hard mode content) is somehow based around GDKPs?

13

Blizzard’s decisions or lack of are based around money.

14

So what you’re saying is they designed Sarth, Ulduar, and ICC hard modes back in original Wrath around trying to get more GDKP runs?

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I’m talking about decisions being made now like shared lockouts.

16

That is not how it goes. It is totally different.

Don’t compare phase 1 and phase 2 here.

Phase 2 you can simply do normal if you can’t clear the hard mode. The hard mode is an alternative.

Heroic is a CHOICE on ToC and cannot be undone once you kill one boss on heroic mode in ToC. On ulduar you can active the Hard modes differently. Not a comparison.

That is a strawman at this point.

Strawman, like I said. Just ignore him, just trying to stir up.

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ToC Works COMPLETELY different than ICC because ICC you can turn Normal and Heroic on bosses and turn back without having to reset. It is a SINGLE lockout but you can turn in / off heroic mode while inside.

Unless they do EXACTLY the same with ToC, it will be quite bad.

Of course, the options to mitigate that are there. I dont mind having one single lockout as long as you don’t lose your whole week if you waste your 50 attempts.

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