Hey does anyone else feel like colossus feels like a better fit for fury and protection and mountain thane more for arms and protection? Thunderclap has always been more of protection and arms’ AoE option when their other options were on CD with WW being fury’s. I know eventually both thunderclap and WW became an every spec thing, but it still feels like if you’re going to make mountain thane a thing you’d give it to them.
As far as colossus, that’s pretty simple, fury is guy that is big and strong enough he only needs one hand to use what others need two to grab and swings his weapons as hard he can as fast as he can. Colossus is a spec about being a big strong guy that is bigger and stronger and hits hard. It feels like they’re fundamentally aligned that giving it to arms instead feels like a missed opportunity.
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Mountain Thane is definitely a direct interpretation of the Warcraft 3 hero unit, the Mountain King.
I do get what you mean with Thunderclap, though. I wish I could glyph Whirlwind to look like Thunderclap instead on my Dwarven Fury Warrior.
Of course, just because something is based on Warcraft III, doesn’t mean it’ll make it into WoW and make sense. See Rexxar, the ultimate Beast Master… but he’s a Survival spec. Oops!
Yeah, mountain thane can be whatever they want, but the abilities they’re using focus more on things that fit the arms spec. That’s what I’m saying on there.
If you mean by name, probably, but mechanically no.
I mostly mean mechanically, so I would really like to hear the argument that the mechanical focus of these don’t fit the opposite specs. If you mean because they currently effect specific abilities in their current form, those can change.
Not even a little bit. Mountain Thane is literally the Warcraft Mountain King hero as a spec. They duel wielded, fury duel wields, fury should have Mountain Thane.
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If the spec had abilities that actually involved duel wielding then I could agree to some extent, but Blizz has never really been all that faithful to the WC3 hero units in any real degree outside of a starting point. MT is already going to not be duel wielding because it’s tied to protection anyways.
Yeah but it is going to be duel wielding because it’s also Fury and not Arms. The damage profile fits Fury better then arms too. The only argument for it being Arms is the use of Thunderclap, which by the tree it’s self was made to work for Fury. (And work better, since it can be tied to their cleave.) The quicker the hits come, the more lightning strikes and thunder blasts you will get. Arms is about getting meaty big hits, Fury is about a lot of hits. It is right where it belongs.
Also, they clearly do stay somewhat faithful since they stuck it onto Fury.
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With the ABC philosophy of WoW both specs are ultimately going to hit with their abilities a lot, and gameplay feel is always going to be iffy with how people perceive the old hero classes. I personally always felt like arms was a hybrid between mountain king and blade master with fury being more akin to just a beserker concept instead of any hero class. Personally I really don’t like adding spell effects to fury as it messes with my idea of the class fantasy, but I don’t mind it being added to arms for the same reason.
Keep in mind the class tree is getting changes. Just because at the moment the rend - thunderclap interaction makes it seem a better fit for Arms doesn’t necessarily mean it will be that way in War within.
Mountain king is literally a fury warrior so…
Agree to disagree on mountain king being fury, because outside the duel wielding I just don’t see it. They always felt like they were using stoneform and magic to augment themselves, which is honestly more of a shaman thing, but in heavy armor and being strength based, making them a warrior. The warcraft 3 heroes aren’t necessarily going to be a specific spec or class, and even if they are it’s not necessarily going to be all abilities that match the class in question. Blademasters are pretty solidly considered arms warriors while invisibility and mirror images are mage spells.
Why post a thread if you’re going to complain about everyone who’s telling you that Mountain Thane makes sense the way it’s been set as a Prot/Fury Hero Talent tree.
The facts.
Mountain Thane was basically just a Tanky Bruiser.
Muradin being the most prolific, playable in HotS as well who dual wields an Axe and Mace combination.
Fury being the more tanky of the two dps specialisations due to it’s self healing. Fury also has the ability to Dual Wield.
If anything Protection was just tacked onto this as the other spec when this hero talent tree was designed.
The flavours granted by each of the Hero Trees we’ve seen so far match the combinations quite well, Colossus’s Demolish debacle aside.
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Why post a thread if I’m not going to discuss the points people bring up? Like if I wanted to just scream into the either without engaging with people that disagree I’d write a blog. I’m trying to discuss the points that people are bringing up and not saying that they’re wrong and I’m right. More than I can say about half the threads on any forum.
I didn’t want to bring up protection if I could on this one because it felt like it was unnecessary, as slayer already exists as the one that’s fury and arms it would require even more fiddling around to make Mountain thane take its place rather than swap two that, I feel, fit in each other’s slot. Protection does still use TC as its main AoE so it still works on that front, imho.
As far as being tankier that’s an odd one for me as generally the self healing is negligible at best and arms has ignore pain and retaliation options, but I can also concede that BT is a part of the rotation so the healing adds up over time, while both of arms’ options are things that interrupt their rotations.
Honestly most of the reason that I want the switch lies in colossus being just an awful fit for arms, and arguably protection, but being such a super strong fit for fury. Fury hit big, fury hit hard, fury make enemy go squish. Arms is about poising the right strike at the right time and using weapon techniques passed down from the ancients.
You say the following.
when just before it you say this
So if Arms is about finding the moment for the right strike, how is colossus not the right fit for it when demolish does exactly that?
Fury’s also always been about more cuts, less damage per cut attacking the enemy with speed.
Demolish reads as just a really big hard hitter, not so much a planned strike. Gameplay wise, sure there are buffs gained to do more damage, but that’s literally every single spec in the game. That’s what WoW Gameplay is, coordinating buffs with abilities to get the most our of them and the nuance comes from how those abilities and buffs work. When I play fury I feel like I’m slamming my opponent as hard as possible with my abilities acting as me getting ready to rampage again. When I play arms I feel like I’m building up to my mortal strikes, with my other abilities lowering my enemy’s guard until I strike their weak spot for massive damage.
As far as the “always” discussion goes, wow specs have barely ever had a spec maintain their design space for more than a couple expansions. Honestly post legion is the longest we’ve gone without massively changing specs and classes.
this is why SoD exists, BM is melee as it should be. Now they just need to do SoD versions of every expansion up to current retconning all the dumb decisions (like melee survival and their main ability being bombs? for some reason, and removing SL all together from the timeline) and maybe after these next 3 expansions we can get back to WoW feeling like Warcraft again.
Survival was originally home to the melee abilities and talents, but they were just plain bad back then. As far as bombs being used, this because of a couple reasons. The first is because they used to use explosive shots and traps back when they weren’t melee, but more so because they’re about making tricks and devices to aid themselves in combat, or put another way, SURVIVAL by any means.