Why is clearing an M+20 easier than Heroic Amirdrassil bosses?
The drops are better from M+20, and happen more often. Heroic Amirdrassil gives 470 for significantly more effort.
Is there something wrong with Heroic Amirdrassil? It feels harder than most other Heroic raids in recent years, especially when compared to the difficulty of M+ >20. I see a LOT of people with 2500+ M score with barely any progression on Heroic Amirdrassil.
Heroic isn’t any harder though.
I don’t see the problem with that, some people just like M+ and don’t want to raid. Most people who care about M+ will raid a bit to get the helm enchant though.
If those people with 2500 IO put as much effort and time into raiding they would probably have AOTC and maybe 3/9M.
Easier to get 5 people than 10-20 people
Exactly, but the rewards for getting 10-20 people are pretty bad.
Not if those 20 people decide to go into Mythic instead.
More to your point, M+ is just easier to get into than raiding for most players.
If you’re arguing that maybe M+ shouldn’t give mythic quality loot, that’s another conversation and there are probably some truths to be said there.
Much like most things, Heroic isn’t hard once you’ve been through it enough, same can be said for keys, especially if you do the same key level. I think the hardest part of heroic is getting in to a PUG, it doesn’t take long for people wanting you to have AotC already. And then if you have a group without many people who already know the fights, then you’re basically doing prog, but it’s PUGs, so it falls a part fast.
Spinning five plates is easier than spinning twenty.
Remove raid lockout.
Buff raid crests to next tier.
Buff raid vault to next tier.
Parity.
a lot of people who run keys care very little about raid or not at all. i’ll go pick up aotc before it goes away but that’s all the interest i have in it
Even then, they are going to be under-rewarded for the difficulty bump over heroic compared to just chain-farming 18-20s.
this thread’s a whole lot of nothing.
why be mad op? M+ was nerfed to death and this is the result, don’t act surprised.
Tindral and Fyrakk should offer one Myth vault if both of them are killed on heroic. Up the Mythic vault for tind and fyrakk kills to a special track above Myth to compensate if killed on mythic. I think that’s way more than reasonable if 20s give myth track vaults.
Because reward structure matters. This is the same reason why people didn’t like Titanforging.
Technically Fyrakk gives mythic level in Heroic, bc Augury has the extra levels as rare item 
Huh? I don’t see what in my post would show that I have any level of animosity. I’m just saying that it feels like Heroic Raiding is much harder than M+ >20.
I have a few AOTCs, not every raid tier, but it’s always been easier (especially in Season 1 of SL/DF) to get AOTC before getting the M+ mount. But in S2 and S3 of DF it feels like it’s much easier to get a high M+ score than it is to get AOTC.
Sure, maybe M+ got nerfed, but I don’t mind it. What I find weird is that raiding doesn’t feel like it’s giving the rewards it should. Like someone else mentioned here, Raiding rewards feel like they’re an entire “level” too low. Heroic should be giving 480+ and not 470+, for example.
It feels very odd to do Heroic Amirdrassil and have your entire crew be at ilvl 475+ and struggle with the fights just to get rewards that aren’t even upgrades. Especially with Catalyst charges, raiding isn’t even useful to get tier sets anymore. So what’s the point? The whole reward structure feels broken.
note this is all coming from a pure pugger
caz its less people that can stuff easy stuff up (even though its very easy to find brain dead key runners) and that you have had to do lower tirs keys to get to that level so you know what to do in the dugg
also think caz of how keys are made harder the bosses in keys are easier then bosses in raids,. my above point also adds to this. if a few people donno what to do it can be a sh**show.
reminds me if the first month of this raid tir. did 2 h smols. we did it in the first few runs each time. we have under powered people but they knew what to do after being told and we did it, mostly due to it being more a mechanic fight then a hard dps check fight (well, until the end).
i tried it again this week (for the skip quest to be finished) and it was a cluster F. more then half the groups i was in had people stacking at the wrong time, stacking the small aoes/standing to close to the big aoe so there was nonplace to run, dropping the fire aoes way infrount of the boss, making no room to move to, healers not healing the people that stacked and letting them die, etc.
i felt like i was playing with headless chickens. hell, headless chickens are problems a bit smarter then some of the people i played with, lol
it’s not like you don’t have to put in a lot of hours to fully gear a character, because you do. M+ is unfair in the sense that you can no life it, but that’s about it. If you want to log on 6 hours a week and clear heroic, you can do so. If you want to go the extra effort and spam M+ all day, you can. Nothing wrong with the system.
At this point though, if you’ve cleared 9/9M Amirdrassil, what’s the point of getting even more gear? lol I’m being facetious but it’s kinda true.
Let’s not forget to you can upgrade gear. All hero track items go to 483, 6 ilevels shy of mythic raid quality. So technically H raid does drop 480+ loot.