That is what Twitter is for 
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Because you have a clear lack of understanding.
For somebody who is accusing me of changing the definition, you sure are changing the definition alot.
Me saying it’s not free, doesn’t mean i hate it or want to sue it. Infact, despite it not being free, i still think it’s good. I will say it again so you won’t try to purposely misinterpret or miss it.
Here’s an idea for you… How about instead of ignoring it and making up some sort of strawman that i hate it or something… you actually understand what i’ve said and don’t use strawmans on something i’ve never said or implied, so it doesn’t make you look silly when you’re trying to paint it as me hating it when i like it? Yea? 
So now you’re saying it’s not about the definition anymore?.. I’m sorry, but who’s changing the definition again? Because i’m pretty much taking the word “free” at face value here, while you’re asking me to disregard the definition essentially.
I’ve never actually heard of that crude version either.
Pot meet kettle.
You still have to pay for your sub, and the “free” expansions are part of the sub you’re paying. Again, for somebody who is accusing me of changing the definition, you certainly doing a lot of that…
Your server access to the games is the product your paying for, you silly blood elf. 
What loot does the Twitter boss drop?
Honestly agree with this idea.
No harm in making classic free and tbc/ retail still requiring a sub.
The biggest problem I can think of is no pay wall would make classic overun with bots
Never said you hated anything. I assumed you shared the OP’s viewpoint considering you initially responded to my response to the OP in defense of their position. I also didn’t state or imply you wanted to sue Blizzard. You want to talk about straw manning, which I’m not certain you understand the definition of either, you ignored the context of what I said. Here it is for your convenience:
My point in that comment was that you can’t win this argument anywhere but in your own mind. No court of law or anybody that understands the scope of the definition of the term free would ever agree with you. And you know that, which is why you were selective in which part of my post you chose to qoute and address. As you’ve done several times in previous replies.
What is silly here is either your complete lack of comprehension or your hypocrisy in calling my argument a strawman. I’m not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting my comments or just avoiding the parts of those you can’t refute. Or for what reason you would have to do so. Nobody has interjected themselves into our discussion. Nothing you have said has compelled anyone to agree with you or garnered any support in this thread. There are only others that share your misconceptions independently.
Another actual strawman and misrepresentation of what I said. Again, for your reference:
YOU are not using the objective definition of free. Therefore, from your subjective position this is not about the definition for YOU. It most definitely is for me.
Patently false. If that were true your subscription alone would allow access to all SL content without added cost. And astonishingly, two more examples of words you don’t understand the definition of.
Service, a transaction in which no physical goods are transferred from the seller to the buyer.
Product, a thing or person that is the result of an action or process.
The expansions are developed, produced, and sold to you as a PRODUCT.
The subscription is a SERVICE that when purchased allows access to the hardware necessary to run the game that Blizzard invested there own income into from previously successful IPs and also provided for FREE.
So you want to pretend your important in a 17 year old game over and over again as long as Blizz resets the servers like a private server.The point of this game is to move on instead of staying at the same point year after year for your guild to feel important cause they are good at old content.
Then why did you say this this? 
Or this?
Or this?
Or this?
You were clearly implying that i’ve a problem or dislike with the deal with itself, that you’re willing to go and say these things. So honest with me stop pulling that card.
As much i would like Classic to be actually free, OP doesn’t realize that’s never going to happen, considering games like WoW need something to keep up with it’s evergrowing costs and such. And seeing WoW Classic isn’t primed for microtransactions, nor would be a good fit for them and will cause an uproar. And i don’t think Blizzard will take the Private Server route of having donations.
Plus, there are private servers anyways if anybody wants a free Vanilla, since… what? A Vanilla can run on a toaster?.. Vs the new one that recommends an SSD, something that Vanilla didn’t need, but Classic does because their newer engine somehow loads slower then the original?.. If i wanted a free Vanilla, there ya go. 
Not that vanilla interests me…
To quickly go over OP for a second here…
I disagree with him (or if Hoghouse is reading, with you) on here because all of this is pretty unfounded. Plus not to mention, making an MMO F2P is… almost never a good sign for gamers.
No, you just want me to have a problem with it because it makes your case looks better, otherwise why say this then?
You clearly think i have a problem with the deal itself, when really the issue is you not understanding what free is. You keep on bringing it back on “oh how fair it is” when it’s never even irrelevant to this argument, and even if it is, i’ve already given an answer to it.
…Yeah, because i’m the one who is making huge implications that you hated something, right?.. 
/s
I’ve read it, this really adds nothing. It’s just you essentially repeating what you’ve said: “Oh you don’t know the definition of free”… meanwhile not understanding the definition of the word free.
You know, for somebody who accused me of treating it like a competition, you sure are treating it as such.
I’m simply stating 2 facts.
- If you have to buy something, then it’s not free.
- WoW Sub covers for all 3 games. No one game is an extra.
So you’re saying they would be unreasonable like you?..
I’m pretty sure they have a better understanding of the word free to a point where they know it’s not free and can actually explain to you what free is.
…He says after he ignored my comments that i’ve said “It’s a good deal” and proceeds to think i hate it…
You said and/or implyed i hated the deal. I said i didn’t. You kept on making up stuff that i didn’t even said. Funny, that now you’re calling me out for strawman after i called you out on it… 
You were trying to paint me as me hating it. You can gladly lie and deny it all you want, but reality will say it differently then you want to tell as.
As for somebody who is accusing me of misrepresenting my comments, you were clearly guilty of that too.
The real misconception is thinking if you buy something, that means you’re getting something for free. I was trying to dispel that misconception and make you sound not silly. Simply put correcting you.
Your “Buy 1, get 1 free” example, is a perfect misconception that many people look at and don’t even think about it because it has the word free on there. It’s pretty much a glorified “2 for 1” sale. (the 1 being the sale price of 1 item)
Say for example, i sell pizza’s. And i have both discounts/sales going on here.
One is a “Buy 1 pizza, get 1 pizza free” and the other is “2 pizzas for $1”. Ignoring the business questions of “why you’re selling pizza for 1 dollar”.
Now what’s the results for the first one? You get charged as if it’s a single pizza for 2 pizzas.
For the second one? You get charged as if it’s a single pizza for 2 pizzas.
And i wasn’t talking about what’s fair.
If i don’t understand the objective definition of free, then i would be agreeing with you now don’t i?.. But i do… Strange how that works.
Feel free to argue against reality here.
Where did you see the word “free” on there? Infact, where’s “With no additional cost” for TBC and Vanilla? Oh there is a “with no additional cost” but it’s for a mount and a toy for your 6 month sub… Which even then, you’re still buying it.
You pay access for all 3 games. End of story.
For somebody who is telling me i’m ignoring context, you sure are ignoring the fact there’s other expansions in there… Granted part of the base game, but you seemed focused on the current expansion here… when WoW’s Base game is much larger then that.
Says the person who doesn’t know the objective definition of free.
Oh but please teach me o ixmusmsdismsdjcnigsisticks. (Ixmucane) /s
…I X… muc cane. Muck Cane?.. Music Canes? 
I got to look one that up.
Huh, there’s some on Etsy. Ahh, this has nothing to do with what were talking about.
So a service to access to your product and therefore, is the product. Got it.
… Whats was the definition you used again?
Huh. If it’s comes for free… then why i have to pay for it?.. That’s weird…
Oh no, wait i got it! The same sub that i pay for in order to play Retail… also pays for TBC classic and Classic. Huh, It’s almost like i’m paying for all 3 of them with my single sub… 3 MMOS by 1 Sub. Sort of like Gamepass but for WoW. 
30 cats. a choice of pink/purple/green hair and an SSD check
Well it’s Twitter, so the only correct answer would be “participation trophies” 
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Blizz is competing with “other private servers”.
You mean, Blizz is competing with pirates?
This is something new?
So… what, you expect Blizz to give away Classic without any kind of sub requirement just because people are out there infringing on Blizz’s IP and breaking copyright laws?
In a general consumer popularity sense yes. It’s not competing for cash, but people’s interests. Since Classic is a glorified Private Server essentially. The only thing as i said before, that Classic has to offer, is just essentially being a modern remaster in all but graphics and gameplay (for the most part). That said, while i’m 99% sure, that 99.99% of everybody has a capable machine of running WoW Vanilla, the private servers as i said, are often based off of older code, which means it reaches a lot further back in terms of tech, which gives way to more people potentially.
No. Popularity contest from official releases vs pirated releases do happen all the time. THUGPro vs THPS5, GTA 5 with FiveM vs GTA Online, even to other games, like WoW to FF14, or Planet Coaster to Roller Coaster Tycoon World, and so on. It happens more frequently if the official versions aren’t that good.
Popularity plays a huge factor right next to profits. Or the only factor sometimes.
Nowhere i’ve expect Blizzard to give away Classic. I would love that, but that’s never going to happen because it’s not primed for the usual F2P trappings like MTX and adding it will betray the spirit of vanilla, and people won’t see being F2P as a good sign.
Yes, it’s illegal to break copyright laws, and i do agree they shouldn’t have to compete against private servers for attention. But there’s a reason why Vanilla as well other expansions have been documented to death, as well why people wanted Vanilla so badly from Blizzard.
Well, Blizz gave people Vanilla and now they’re going “B-B-B-BUT I DON’T WANNA HAVE TO PAY A SUB! IT SHOULD BE TOTALLY F2P!”
It’s like they can’t win no matter what they do.
And I’d argue that with private servers, there’s always the risk they will be found out and shut down, or the people running them will eventually run out of cash or funds, esp if they are in danger of lawsuits from Blizz if they take any money to keep it running, and/or it just might not function all that well, compared to an official server run by Blizz.
Any characters you create on a Blizz server are likely more secure and less likely to disappear in a poof of smoke. That’d be a pretty compelling reason to play on Blizz servers rather than some private server that might, or might not be there next week, or next month or what-not.
I get why people want older servers, I myself am eagerly awaiting Wrath Classic myself… but even as I play on TBC Classic, I’ve come to see the beauty in it vs retail, though it’s rather depressing how far Retail has fallen in the past couple expansions.
can you explain to me why my sub should go towards the upkeep of your servers, when you yourself don’t contribute to that server upkeep?
We are done. There’s nothing to be gained from debating anything with someone who intentionally misrepresents every comment I make, uses actual strawman arguments repeatedly while falsely accusing me of doing so, and selectively and deceptively addresses only portions of my posts removed from context because you lack the ability to refute them within it. This is the tactic of someone who has reached a point in a discussion where they can no longer defend the merits of their position, but due to their overly competitive nature and lack of humility they are incapable of conceding as it would bruise their ego. But it’ll be alright, you can just tell yourself that because I disengaged from the conversation first that you won. 
They always did that. This isn’t anything new.
I personally wouldn’t mind on what they do honestly. If they wanted to make WoW Classic a sub, that’s fine.
I’m more concerned of the people’s reactions’ and attitude towards it.
Well yes. I won’t deny that, Private servers are temporary in that aspect.
I mean so does every other company, but… yes.
Well for some i’ve seen, if they are huge on scale, yes. But even taking this and applying it to all private servers, the only reason they haven’t been shut down immediately is donations. I.E, people willingly support them for the sake of supporting. And I don’t think Blizzard has much reach in that field.
Microtransactions, ehhh… I mean Private servers are in essence F2P, so i can’t punch much here, but these are sort of a gray area from what i’ve seen. If it’s donations, then it’s usually safe.
And i say all this with knowing the possibility that i might be wrong. I’m not huge into the whole culture and dangers of owning and running private servers.
I agree. Blizzard’s servers does guarantee security, and Blizzard has been surprisingly reliable with it. 
Nothing you’ve said here is wrong, it’s just even with those flaws, the private server still stands on it’s own competing against. It’s kind of like Mac Vs PC in terms of viruses. Sure, Macs are more protected, but PCs still offer the cheaper price and it’s open source. (This is based off an old myth that Macs are virus-proof, when nothing is. Anything’s a computer will catch viruses)
Ehh, to each’s own. I find retail still enjoyable, despite the incredibly very weak aspects it has.
…You know this should’ve been the last thing you should’ve said at the end of the comment or… just be done with it and say nothing to me at all…
But hey, what do i know, you’re the same mate who thinks i hate and didn’t play retail even though i’ve proven i do play retail and don’t hate it.So clearly you’re the better person to speak for me. /s
Pot meet kettle.
Pot meet kettle.
I guess all the times i’ve said “It’s a good deal” while you’re trying to bring up “were talking about fairness” doesn’t exist, huh?.. I would quote them again if you want.
Mate, all you literally just did is say “It’s free” over and over again and didn’t even explain how it’s free. Infact, you sort of proved it’s not free by not even addressing my biggest question that being “if it’s free, why i’m paying for it?”. Ya can shout free till your blue in the face, but if you are paying for something, it’s not free.
I would say “neither did you”, but that would imply that your arguments had any merit to begin with.
You are the only person who is literally treating this as a competitive thing. But i guess you think it’s okay for you do it, just to paint me in a bad light whenever you can, because "fREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! 
"…
Nice projection mate. 
Maybe if you spent more time actually arguing to my points and learning the objective definition of free and understand where i’m coming from, instead of painting me in a bad light whenever you can and back peddle into the “I didn’t say that” as well slinging ad-homs at me like you did at the end of the comment and weirdly making it about a competition just to blame it on me, my respect for your arguments would improve.
So you’re not done then.
Well i wasn’t surprised you would say that and not keep your own promise you’ve said there, but hey, you’re the same mate who thinks i don’t play Retail. 
So Ciao. 
Anywho, i’l go back to you here, since you seemed to be the most reasonable.
I’l use the example i’ve sadly wasted on musical canes here.
I say this without a hint of sarcasm or snark… i really hope you understand at least what i’m trying to get across.
Was that a reply to me?
If so, I am a paying customer, so I do contribute to Blizz’s server upkeep.
I never said it was devoid of enjoyment and fun, I’m just saying that it is lacking a lot of stuff that Classic has, you know, like level and gear progression?
Leveling up is way more fun when you can actually feel yourself getting stronger. You just don’t get that in retail when your gear score doesn’t matter until you get to 150+.
I think a better line of reasoning is “Buy a pizza, get a pepsi for free.”
You could argue the Pepsi isn’t free if you want, but it seems like we disagree on the exact definition of “free”. You are arguing the Pepsi isn’t free because you have to pay for the Pizza, while I argue that the Pepsi is actually free, because you could just as easily buy the Pizza and decline the Pepsi offer and end up paying the exact same price as someone who did take the Pepsi.
In either case, you can’t just walk in, grab a Pepsi and walk out. You do actually have to buy the Pizza, first no matter which way you go with that.
I mean, I ‘get’ your reasoning as to why you hold the view that you do, I just happen to not see it the same way. It’s a half-empty vs half-full type thing to be honest.
It’s still in retail. Unless you’re talking about the quality of it.
Oh i won’t deny that. Retail definitionally dropped the ball on that front so ridiculously hard that it broke the ground before it even exploded, it is that unbelievable. No level 47ish mobs in Legion Mythic should have a snowball chance in hell beat a lvl 60 ilvl 200+ rogue. Or a 150+ Rogue. 
Legion was two expansions ago. It should be easy at level 60. What you going to do? Tell me to get 250+ gear and suddenly the problem goes away?..
The Scaling is borked.
Majorly borked. It has a major in being borked at Borkington university and going to get a high paying career of being borked. The Porcupines gods said “Let them be borked” and i’ve became a monkey’s uncle. /j
I used to like it because it allows choices on where you want to go, but the way they implement it could’ve been so much better… and with all the squishing, they broke everything they can beyond belief like that. I can literally take a bunch of trillion digit numbers on screen and be level 9000, if that means i can solo Legion Mythics and feel powerful…
With that said, kind of wish there’s more ways to level up in Classic then just dungeons/questing. Building my own spec is nice and the increased presence of people and community makes a different (albeit frustrating sometimes) experience each time you play. But without anything else to justify the length from 1 to 60, and not much to do in endgame either outside of Raiding, PvP and more quests, it does get old pretty quick imo.
Well, were seemingly working with the same definition of ‘free’ here, that being “without cost or payment”. Not to sound like a jerk, but understanding the definition is the reason why i think why i do with this one and disagree.
Uhh, you’re describing combo meals here. It’s not bad, it’s just something i also don’t see being advertised as “you get free this that and the other” and just treat them as part of the same order.
Yes, there are choices, if you just want the pizza and no soda, the price will be the same regardless if you want the soda or not.
Me personally using an example that happened to me a year ago, i have gotten a Ryzen 7 3800XT for my very first built PC, because my last PC was a dinosaur in terms of the motherboard it has. And that new CPU came with a redeemable code for Far Cry 6 to put in AMD rewards and to Uplay aslong i was using it. And this sums up my reaction.
Even then, i still wouldn’t call it free. Despite not knowing about it beforehand.
… Fair enough. 
I mean at least you understand where i’m coming from and get where i’m getting at, so i’l just leave it at that.
I’ve said this before on this thread…