Classic Vs. Current: My Experience

Community General Discussion
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11/02/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Alyanea
11/02/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Hailtofire
So you're saying we are going to have earn it...SOUNDS GOOD!!!


um.... so u think we don't earn gear now?

It's less that you don't earn the rewards you sometimes receive. I was doing waycrest mythic for the weekly and a hunter who disengaged on the giant fat thing boss, pulled like 5 packs from the hallway, died, and then ended up getting a 385 cloak from him. That hunter did not deserve that item at that Ilvl. He did very little if anything other than make us carry him that run but was rewarded a mythic raid level item for doing so. That's an issue.
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11/02/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Alyanea
11/02/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Hailtofire
So you're saying we are going to have earn it...SOUNDS GOOD!!!


um.... so u think we don't earn gear now?


We do earn gear now, I do agree, but I think the way we earn gear is a different experience. yes I do feel ecstatic when I killed mythic Taloc and mythic MOTHER and get loot from it, but at the same time I feel like I didn't earn it.

Vanilla had a master loot system. The guild masters distributed gear depending on a lot of factors. Like if you show up on time do good dps and etc. DKP. I feel like that system was better. Like I actually EARNED the gear, but like i've said i've never went through it. Its just what I think.

Also a side note about the bosses in general. I love mechanics and i know that, that was not a thing in vanilla, it was a number crunch. Do you guys think that it would be better to have more of a balance with that. The more number crunching hard !@#$ with mechanics? (I understand it still is always a thing to number crunch. I do it all the time with my logs, raidbot and wow analyzer but I’m meaning more extremely)
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11/02/2018 10:42 PMPosted by Manngina
If you are having fun, that's all that matters. That's what these games are for. I'll probably dabble with it a bit too.


^^
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11/02/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Vestamavra
11/02/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Alyanea
...

um.... so u think we don't earn gear now?


We do earn gear now, I do agree, but I think the way we earn gear is a different experience. yes I do feel ecstatic when I killed mythic Taloc and mythic MOTHER and get loot from it, but at the same time I feel like I didn't earn it.

Vanilla had a master loot system. The guild masters distributed gear depending on a lot of factors. Like if you show up on time do good dps and etc. DKP. I feel like that system was better. Like I actually EARNED the gear, but like i've said i've never went through it. Its just what I think.

Also a side note about the bosses in general. I love mechanics and i know that, that was not a thing in vanilla, it was a number crunch. Do you guys think that it would be better to have more of a balance with that. The more number crunching hard !@#$ with mechanics? (I understand it still is always a thing to number crunch. I do it all the time with my logs, raidbot and wow analyzer but I’m meaning more extremely)


lol
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

um.... so u think we don't earn gear now?

It's less that you don't earn the rewards you sometimes receive. I was doing waycrest mythic for the weekly and a hunter who disengaged on the giant fat thing boss, pulled like 5 packs from the hallway, died, and then ended up getting a 385 cloak from him. That hunter did not deserve that item at that Ilvl. He did very little if anything other than make us carry him that run but was rewarded a mythic raid level item for doing so. That's an issue.


I hate to break it to you, but a lot of window lickers were carried in vanilla because if done properly, you didn't need 40 people. Yet the face planters that showed up every week and got DKP for it and got raid gear when they contributed very little. That is no different than what just happened to you. Not all vanilla raids, but for sure the first few.
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11/03/2018 12:08 AMPosted by Manngina
...
It's less that you don't earn the rewards you sometimes receive. I was doing waycrest mythic for the weekly and a hunter who disengaged on the giant fat thing boss, pulled like 5 packs from the hallway, died, and then ended up getting a 385 cloak from him. That hunter did not deserve that item at that Ilvl. He did very little if anything other than make us carry him that run but was rewarded a mythic raid level item for doing so. That's an issue.


I hate to break it to you, but a lot of window lickers were carried in vanilla because if done properly, you didn't need 40 people. Yet the face planters that showed up every week and got DKP for it and got raid gear when they contributed very little. That is no different than what just happened to you. Not all vanilla raids, but for sure the first few.

Yeah we didn't give Dougle (our retarded warrior) any loot until it was that or be sharded though. Cause we had that option to control the loot and give it to those who did contribute. Sothos got Mageblade cause he rocked meters and so on.

This hunter was just present.
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11/02/2018 11:21 PMPosted by Haunker
none of my equipped gear was obtained through any meaningful content, and yet I now overgear Uldir Normal.

No, unless you're consistently clearing m10s or raiding heroic/mythic uldir, you aren't earning your loot right now.


How do you define "meaningful content"? How are you defining "earned"?

sure you overgear Uldir normal but that is by design, Blizzard want there to be more than one way of gearing other than raiding.

And still, that aside, doing content and getting reward for completing said content is earning the loot is it not... you don't factor in how hard the content is for whether said loot is earned cause you are earning the loot by doing and completing the content.... lol, hope I'm getting my point across here xD

I think your issue is more that you don't like that raiding is not the be all end all for gearing and that there are other ways to get raid quality gear. Which is another issue entirely.

11/02/2018 11:22 PMPosted by Lockoclock
It's less that you don't earn the rewards you sometimes receive. I was doing waycrest mythic for the weekly and a hunter who disengaged on the giant fat thing boss, pulled like 5 packs from the hallway, died, and then ended up getting a 385 cloak from him. That hunter did not deserve that item at that Ilvl. He did very little if anything other than make us carry him that run but was rewarded a mythic raid level item for doing so. That's an issue


i don't disagree.... but ya, how does that invalidate earning gear?

The issue you have is a separate one to this topic whereby you dislike TF/WF and I agree with you on that... imo, TF/WF (which we know blizzard will never remove) needs a hard cap on it at the very least :/

But I mean, the argument could be made that he did do and complete the content so he did earn the loot.... though if he was literally 100% carried then ya... but that !@#$ could happen in vanilla as well, though sure, he would be less likely in vanilla to get the gear.

11/02/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Vestamavra
I feel like that system was better. Like I actually EARNED the gear, but like i've said i've never went through it. Its just what I think.


ya, but master vs personal loot is a topic for another time... master loot is indeed a better system for high end raiding and gearing. We've had the system until legion and should be a system in all of wow's lifetime... but what to do :<

But I would disagree that you only feel like you've earned the loot if its through master loot... I dunno, but for me, when my guild and I down a mythic boss, or hell, a heroic boss for the first few times, i definitely feel like i EARNED the loot i get. Getting through the difficult mechanics and finally killing a boss (with either master or personal loot is the same feeling) you definitely earn that gear.

Of course, this is really subjective feeling, you feel better with getting loot from your loot master and I find gear drops to be just fine.

And sure when raid tiers become farmable by your guild, the feeling is less and less but that's true for any expansion raid... hell, any MMO when raid tier are on farm.
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11/02/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Vestamavra
11/02/2018 09:15 PMPosted by Kozzae
...

What you may have missed is that there was a “cookie cutter build”, and many of the sites you mentioned actually started out during this time period. There was always a more proficient path of talents in most cases. It was just a matter of putting the minimum amount of passive talents to get the desired active at the bottom.

As far as grouping it’s good to see that again. The only problem that really requires it though is the time limit to trial, as well as the fact that mobs are only single tap when solo again, so grouping is really the most efficient way to complete quests in the time limit.


"I understand that back then there was some-what of a cookie cutter build, but even then it still had a lot of variety."


Too bad that's categorically untrue. There was no variety. You specced the right way or you were bad. Talent trees are not freedom, they are the illusion of choice.
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I'm really glad the OP has enjoyed their time trying out Classic. There's a reason that Classic has the most representation out of all the private wow servers in terms of expac. It's a whole different experience far removed from how wow is now. I don't hate on people for enjoying current wow and all the QoL stuff that's been implemented. I also don't fault people who only enjoy Classic and don't want the changes. I just think it's great to see a fresh player go into the experience and actually see it for what it's supposed to be.

People call Classic tedious and a huge grind and while the time investment was high and the content easy (by todays standard) it was more about the experiences in between that. Yes you had to farm mats or grind reps or get attunements. But you met people along the way, joined a guild and made friends. It was a time when wow was still encouraging players to be social and go out of their way to meet new people and say ''hi! wanna do X together?''.

I don't think it's even fair anymore to compare current WoW with Classic as they're basically 2 different things at this stage. I hope Blizz just plays this out smart and doesn't ruin what could potentially be a great time for veterans and newcomers alike (itemization already has me concerned, hopefully fixing soon).

Play what you want to as long as you're enjoying it then who cares. Apples and Oranges.
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11/02/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Vestamavra
11/02/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Alyanea
...

um.... so u think we don't earn gear now?


We do earn gear now, I do agree, but I think the way we earn gear is a different experience. yes I do feel ecstatic when I killed mythic Taloc and mythic MOTHER and get loot from it, but at the same time I feel like I didn't earn it.

Vanilla had a master loot system. The guild masters distributed gear depending on a lot of factors. Like if you show up on time do good dps and etc. DKP. I feel like that system was better. Like I actually EARNED the gear, but like i've said i've never went through it. Its just what I think.

Also a side note about the bosses in general. I love mechanics and i know that, that was not a thing in vanilla, it was a number crunch. Do you guys think that it would be better to have more of a balance with that. The more number crunching hard !@#$ with mechanics? (I understand it still is always a thing to number crunch. I do it all the time with my logs, raidbot and wow analyzer but I’m meaning more extremely)


You earned the random drop that was still a random drop, except it was given to you by someone with a god complex instead of the game itself, which makes it better? You weren't getting anything if gear for you didn't drop. And filling a 40 person raid wasn't some hardcore number crunch. You had significant amounts of dead weight due to the sheer size of the raid group. I remember multiple DPSers being lower on DamageMeter than the tanks. The tanks that did no damage back then.
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11/02/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Haunter
My favorite part is how this thread is the OP giving their thoughts on the classic demo as an outsider who's never played classic before, and every naysaying comment is just some variation of "NO U ONLY THINK U WERE HAVING FUN"


this ,
I was just thinking the same thing ...

"IT WAS SO COOL ! PPL WAS TALKING AND GROUPING TOGETHER !"
... no they wasn't ,they were bots ,it was an empty world full of bots , dont look behind them you will notice the ON/OFF switch ,all this classic fun thing is a hoax.
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11/03/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Grahlael
11/02/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Vestamavra
...

"I understand that back then there was some-what of a cookie cutter build, but even then it still had a lot of variety."


Too bad that's categorically untrue. There was no variety. You specced the right way or you were bad. Talent trees are not freedom, they are the illusion of choice.


If you wanted to maximize whatever task you had to do then yes there's preferred builds. Those builds changed as gear was obtained or patches were released same as they are today. But I think the point was that you still had the option to do some wacky stuff. I know for a fact that PvP was littered with different builds. Deep frost. Arcane/Frost, Elemental and PoM Pyro for mages. Disc/Priest hybrids for priests as aswell as locks specing half way down demo then half way down affi. I still remember the glory days of BC for the dreaded Shockadin!

The choice is still infact there. If you want to do your absolute best on a boss encounter or dungeon run in general then yes there are certain builds that will benefit you more. But You can also mix things up when it comes to other content or just to experiment. Reckoning Paladins for example are NOT optimal in the least but MY GOD is it hilarious to watch and play as. This kind of flavour doesn't really exist anymore and I personally am looking forward to seeing all the newcomers discover this type of thing for myself. ''Oh that mage is casting a Pyro, I guess he's fire'' <-- moments before a PoM Pyro came straight after resulting in a 2 shot.
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Oh trust me, it's nice at first with the community united

Then things like hour long dungeons where deaths means being in an outside graveyard

Spending days in the Barrens walking back and Forth as Horde, or running super unreasonably long distances through much higher level zones to get to an appropriate leveling zone for Alliance

Super long level and rep grinds that make BFA and Legion AP grinding look super fast and easy

Not getting a mount to make the journey easier for a god damn long time

2 mobs being able to kill you with ease while leveling

Look dont get me wrong, Classic was pretty damn awesome at the time, but honestly I'd mostly play again for nostalgia's sake. Community was much more tight-knit than before because well...it had to be and that was the best part of Classic

The dungeon and raid mechanics are complete jokes compared to how newer ones are. Classic also was not hard it wastedious. To even be able to do certain content, you had to spend hours grinding for attunement as well as proper gear which promptly made the fight you were preparing for 100x easier.

So many people crying about grinds in BFA will be terrified of Classic's grinds. The whole "yeah man it was hard because you couldn't pull a buncha stuff" argument...that's not the game necessarily being difficult, it's the game making the journey long

Again, hella fun and hella awesome at the time. Not so fantastic in retrospect
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11/03/2018 01:23 AMPosted by Ghazgkul
So many people crying about grinds in BFA will be terrified of Classic's grinds. The whole "yeah man it was hard because you couldn't pull a buncha stuff" argument...that's not the game necessarily being difficult, it's the game making the journey long


I'm only going to tackle this statement as the rest of your comment is personal opinion and yeah you prob won't play Classic beyond super casually. However when it comes to the grind argument of BfA vs Classic/Vanilla there have been several content creators and community figures who have given light on the subject.

The reason previous iterations of the game, including Vanilla are still heralded as amazing with said grinds is because it felt rewarding. BfA currently has you farming Azerite for a necklace that goes up in tertiary stats and lets you continue having the same traits you got while leveling. It isn't adding anything and is basically the filler plot to the anime of wow.

The azerite armour system itself is having to receive some attention from Blizz in upcoming patches due to how poorly the community are receiving it. You need to actually have a method of obtaining a meaningful ilvl piece of gear, then have traits you want on it, meanwhile those traits are lackluster and add very little to the feel of the game.

The Artifact weapon Gold Traits did more for classes than the azerite armour is. Tier sets did FAAAAAAR MORE than az traits.

Meanwhile back in Classic it took ages to get a mount but when you obtained it you felt accomplished like you really earned something. Human being respond better to a sense of achievement as opposed to being handed things.

Consider titles/rare transmog/Mythic raiding etc. Players enjoy earning their rewards and showing off their accomplishments. Classic had long journaye to reach these goals usually involving other players involvement, like making a Thunderfury or raiding a Horde capital (back when there was no other reward than bragging rights and glory).

Heck there are people who sprung up out of their chairs cheering due to solo'ing Hogger. Come on now, that's pretty rad right? I'm not bashing people who like BfA I'm just pointing out what is it that Classic players enjoy about their game.
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to OP ,
you should look at ppls history and achievement before believe their "vanilla sucked" and "bfa>classic"
90% have no clue what they are talking about .

js
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11/03/2018 01:46 AMPosted by Oldjoe
to OP ,
you should look at ppls history and achievement before believe their "vanilla sucked" and "bfa>classic"
90% have no clue what they are talking about .

js


When did the OP state she believed other people's Vanilla experiences may have sucked?
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11/03/2018 01:45 AMPosted by Bleeds
Heck there are people who sprung up out of their chairs cheering due to solo'ing Hogger. Come on now, that's pretty rad right? I'm not bashing people who like BfA I'm just pointing out what is it that Classic players enjoy about their game.


Not denying that. Again, the Classic grind certainly appealed to some and I certainly see the market for the people who did enjoy it. I'm certainly not one of them because I already did it once, went through the struggle, enjoyed it and I'll just leave it at that.

But regardless, I feel at least half of these people who say Classic will be better either barely touched Classic or not at all when their argument boils down to simply "the grind didn't suck" or heaven forbid the occasional idiot who claims "there wasn't a grind" or even "classes were better balanced/designed back then (cringes in 1 button rotations)"