And dwarfs could be mages in the lore, but for reasons they couldn’t in vanilla.
So u still want to change the game just to increase your fun while decreasing that of others, how noble.
So basically, Vanilla was toxic, WoW still is, and Classic will be too? Have you heard about FF14? I think it’s the game for you.
Well if they’re not supposed to do respectable damage, why do they have a ret tree? Did you ever stop to think that maybe the talent system existed because they wanted all 3 subclasses to actually be usable?
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Toxicity isn’t the reason for any of the arguing I’ve had in this thread, it’s for those that want to play say prot paladin, shadow priests to name some of the widely unplayed specs because all anyone cared to do is be toxic and try to force people to give up their own fun for progression purposes.
Hence, competition developed because world first kills is all that mattered and hence wow esports was considered because of the extremely high levels of competition that had existed, while that competition won’t be all that big but the toxicity of raid progression which i guarantee you most people will force sooner or later.
So, you’re complaining that Vanilla didn’t support hybrids enough. You’re right. It didn’t. And Classic won’t either. Because we’re getting the original game, not a mashed up modern attempt to fix flaws. Leave that for Classic+ in 2021.
The nature of not wanting Ret Pallies, Moonkin etc is not toxicity. Its optimization. It’s taking the game’s rules and conditions and saying “This is an objectively better class to take if we want maximal DPS.” However, that’s not every group. You aren’t going to be able to tank or DPS as a Paladin in bleeding edge raid groups, because that isn’t optimal. If you want to be in a bleeding edge raid group, choose a Warrior for Tanking or one of the 4-5 Prime DPS classes for DPSing. If you want to Ret or Prot Pally, choose a non-bleeding edge raiding group who is more concerned with fun than fast progression.
The real toxicity comes from people who think that they can demand that their subpar DPS “deserves” a place that other players can out perform on main DPS classes.
You can’t have your cake and eat it. If you choose a sub-par DPS role in Vanilla, you will not be allowed into groups that require above par DPS.
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That was the only change they made then?
Hey fun fact, do you know why that existed? Because ret paladins and moonkins didn’t do respectable amounts of pf damage because at that time classes were so imbalanced that it makes playing a class and race in dungeons and dragons in a campaign designed to alienate that race or class more enjoyable.
That’s why i want these unwanted and unplayed specs to be brought up and unused tank specs to be given taunts, so they are functional and enjoyable classes
If there is money to be made by adding to classic in some way later on, thereby retaining players to pay said money, it’ll happen. I just hope if it does, that the base game play is left intact this time. The one thing classic has going for it that retail does not, IMHO, is that classic is actually fun and engaging to play.
I could spend the next several years playing classic on/off trying different classes/specs/factions/professions. To me, there are nearly endless possibilities and high replay value, because the core of the game is actually good. The “entertain me” folks that rush to end game, shred the content, then complain they are bored will have that problem in any game. That isn’t a problem with the game so much as the player, in my opinion. Trying to satisfy those folks results in the current retail game.
Paladin tanks have a mana issue when talking about why they suck as tanks, yes for some raid bosses u need taunt but that is not even the main concern.
Mana = thread, a finite resource.
while warrior use rage, an infinite resource.
So which classes need to be given taunts in order to be made functional [your emphasis]? I know you said it earlier in the thread but I want you to to say it again so I can laugh at it again.
Actually, fun fact. It was intentional. It wasn’t considered “imbalanced” at the time. Look up a thing called “Hybrid Tax”.
Unlike Retail WoW, being a Prot or Ret Paladin doesn’t exclude you from the full base toolset of a Paladin in Vanilla, and even Holy Paladins have DPS and Tanking abilities. And because of that, Blizzard intentionally designed it to be less effective outside the primary spec, so that one character couldn’t do everything better than other roles.
Without the hybrid tax, everyone would be a Druid, Paladin, Priest, or Shaman.
I take issue with your claim that they are not functional and enjoyable classes. They are. But like a Warlock who can’t heal, Paladins, Druids, Priests and Shaman are primarily healers in Vanilla.
If you don’t like that, wait until TBC Classic, when they fixed many of the imbalance issues.
This is why i am arguing this, they have a chance to fix existing issues in vanilla based on the experiences they had in the first run, its more so if and when they decide to add content to classic (new or existing expansions) the foundation of enjoyable after phase content can exist.
If u give paladins something to have more mana than u make them that more OP in pvp.
New servers with a changed ruleset and content? ![:+1:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/+1.png?v=6" ":+1:")
Modifying the promise of unchanged Classic servers? ![:-1:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/-1.png?v=6" ":-1:")
And then Blizzard intentionally scrapped that idea when they realized that holy paladins weren’t charging in trying off tank. When they finally grasped the reality that classes were brought to fill a specific role, which led to half the game being benched because there just weren’t enough raid spots on the server for that many warriors to tank. Which led to TBC’s “bring the player, not the class.”
As celessi said, what point does paladin having ret and prot paladin trees if they are unwanted? If no one wants it then remove the trees and create a new plate wearing priest because thats largely what paladins are by that point.
I didn’t hear that till Wrath when they changed raid sizes, but yeah, homogenization took a big thing away from the diversity of classes.
Paladins still sucked in pvp, you have to be a real try hard to succeed there. PvP was never blizzards fortee to begin with which is why pvp gets ignored for 3 expansions at a time.
Maybe u sucked, but this isn’t true.
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So this is nothing but a "I’m so bad at my class I need blizz to give me power otherwise I’ll never be able to play with the cool guys…"kind of poster.