Classic: Rogue talents seal fate vs prep

Seal fate/vigor/5 piece nightslayer set for 120 energy or prep build, for pvp. What’s your opinion on which one is better?

I think the 120 energy build makes me more deadly but less survivability with no prep.

You want cold blood in assassination and improved gouge. Then spec down the subtlety tree until you get to hemorrhage. Can go the improved ambush route which is good. Your survivability in PvP comes from the amount of stamina you have and if you have vanish available. Seal fate is pretty bad PvP talent as it’s useless without a lot of Crit and outside of your opening attack its kind of wasted

I can see it being good when everyone has bonescythe gear and tons of Crit but that’s like summer next year

I’d say you really don’t want to use retail class forums for classic advice of any kind. Search for the classic rogue discord and there’s a wealth of info to get you squared away (though none of the responses yet where bad… just that you’re odds of consistently getting good info are better in a place specific to classic)

More specifically to your question…

The downsides to the sealfate build is that you’re losing prep (a second blind, vanish, gouge, evasion, sprint, CB if you have that*), at least 2% hit (depends on your gear here, whether that’s an issue or not), and any chance to grab improved sprint for a snare/root break…

The upside is that you suck less running between targets during situations where you wouldn’t be able to get a restealth off.

Prep dagger builds are ideally killing a target by their first or second finisher (and their second is usually gimp sauce) and then desperately trying to get back into stealth. Their ability to sustain dps in combat after that first finisher really dramatically drops off as they have no means of really generating a bunch of CP without seal fate, without ruthlessness, and without initiative proccing on an opener.

Seal fate builds don’t really experience any significant drop off once in combat, but without the extra cds of prep, or any real way to pick up improved sprint, are significantly more vulnerable themselves.

The only time I ran seal fate back in vanilla was when I ran with a warrior and a shaman every night in BG’s and I did it for exactly the reason dude above me said. Sustained out of stealth damage for those group battleground fights where you never get to restealth.

I personally am running a Seal Fate spec right now for Pve and for PvP. I have 8/8 BF + AQ40 Pugios and Renatakis trinket so it is prob a different situation. However… In PVE im stomping the other rogues right now. There is one Sword rogue where its back and forth on who tops the meters. It depends on the fight… Twin Emps (all the running… I’m killing him on that one for example). In PvP (ive always been imp sprint/prep daggers spec) I lose prep… thats about it. I have picked up seal fate, cold blood, still have endurance and 2/2 imp sprint and 1 in elusiveness. The 5 set nightslayer gives me 120 energy with vigor and 30 seconds less CD on vanish (luke having 2 in elusiveness for free). With the 120 energy and the renatakis charm of trickery (60 energy) I am able to kill literally ANYONE in my opener. Its like cheapshot-> 1.2k Backstab, to a 4 point kidney->Renatakis charm-> 1.2k BS -> 1.2k BS-> to a cold Blood 4 point Evicerate (1.9k crit) they dead. Once again ive always been prep daggers with imp sprint and I LOVE Seal Fate soo much more now. The thing is I am not spending 50g 2x a week on respeccing from combat daggers to imp sprint prep daggers any.orw. i can use seal fate in pvp and do great+ top meters in pve. It does take good gear and crit>30% … FYI in Pve I am using elemental sharpening stone (2% crit) over poisons in my Offhand. Also using the rend trinket (2% crit) over HoJ etc… just stacking crit. Also using quick strike ring over Band of Accuria etc. I had to change a lot of gear out to optimize 30% crit. But saving me 100g per week is totally worth it. And 3 shotting people in openers while they are stunned is an added plus!

Which other rogues?
Also, if you are running renatakis, you want to be using the zg shoulders, and if you break 8 set, you might as well weave in 4p darkmantle.

also, if you are using daggers, you should be using aged core leather gloves until you get deathsting.

I always went 30/8/13 for pvp in classic.

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Learn to ration your cooldowns and this one is really fun. Once you get remorseless buff you basically have 100% crit on backstab and ambush.