Classic Rogue Discussion

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Apologies if there is a thread on this but, my searches have come up empty. My question is for veteran vanilla players who have experience raiding and this post is primarily focused on phases 1-3 with MC and BWL raid DPS. I played combat swords 14 years ago and from my memory the DPS went mostly uncontested against other builds. However, this time around I would like to try combat daggers. I know how viable they can be but if I’m trying to maximize DPS potential is there even a point? I know my class, I know my rotation, and I’m trying to bring the most to the raid. If anyone has any input it would be much appreciated!
I will be an Orc rogue with WF. So, Perditions/CHT vs Viskag/Brut. Bladt - CTS/Maladeth. Who wins?

TLDR: Horde: Combat daggers vs Combat swords DPS potential. MC/BWL phases.

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It really just comes down to whoever has better weapons and/or gear. Dagger definitely wins in T1 though for a few reasons. It has the best weapon (perdition), there’s more weapons available, and there’s options to increase your dagger skill. Sword has no such option until the maladeth in BWL.

In this release however, gearing dagger preraid will be more difficult. Usually, your best weapons come out of AV, a 60 purple/blue combo. But this launch won’t have any BGs. It also won’t have DM. This means that unless you want to craft expensive daggers off blacksmithing, your best option is the dual 58 dalrend swords. You can thus expect to see most rogues go sword spec, even if they plan to switch later.

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Swords will always give you a more steady flow of dps as you have all your abilities minus backstab available and the slower weapons higher dps. Daggers are faster and you rely more on burst damage and loosen application so you rely more on your CDs.

Both are viable swords more if you have a tank that don’t know what they’re doing. Probably should just run a weapon swap macro. Use daggers first as your opener, ambush to backstab then switch to swords.

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I never thought my knowledge on Classic-TBC rogues and mages would ever be viable again in the way WoW is these days. I am happy I learned what I did back then as it’s a completely different game and you rely more on mastering your class over getting top gear.

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I appreciate the input guys. I’ve looked at some logs and almost everyone at the top is swords, you hardly see a dagger rogue. That just bothers me. Granted, with WF and a strong slow hard hitting MH, it makes sense why the majority of top parse players would be swords. So conflicted. Swords making for an easier time solo farming doesn’t help either.

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Well the most challenging boss before AQ is probably Vaelestraz and daggers will definitely do more damage on him.

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I think the lack of viable daggers early on is the main factor. But now we have 15 years of knowledge and I think you can easily make daggers work if you want. It is not like dal rends is guaranteed drop or that you will have that set before your guild is ready to raid so I would play what you like.

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Great information from everyone so far, love it! :slight_smile:

I’ll add a bit more; Daggers are far from bad, just Swords are better early on. It’s not only the dps itself people go for with Swords, but also the safety. I remember a long time ago a Dagger Rogue in my guild would sometimes pulled the mob/boss. That’s because he got lucky and crit a few times too quickly with Backstab. With dagger spec you have to pace yourself a lot more and watch your energy more closely to keep Slice and Dice up consistently. Swords is definitely straight forward.

When Rogues reach AQ40+ gear, a lot of them will migrate to Seal Fate instead of full on combat. Their stats are significantly higher, and the crit chance percent is high enough to outway Adrenaline Rush. Both specs can be used with Swords or Daggers—each of them possibly out dps’ing each other due to crit luck.

I posted a Rogue guide on my guild’s discord, but don’t want to slam this thread with walls of text. If you do however, I’ll be glad to burn your eyes off with information! :slight_smile:

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Combat swords is the best way to level to 60, then if you can decide to stay swords or daggers, really depends on what weapon you can get early on. At 60 I swapped back and forth until I grinded out the AV dagger.

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I imagine swords will be better on horde side because of WF. Probably best on alliance as well because of the human racial.

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It was always fight dependent. I was actually what I called a backstab rogue. I was specced for backstabbing and crits. Some fights I was ahead of other rogues, sometimes I wasn’t. If you know what you are doing, more viable specs open up to you.

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I’d be interested in reading the guide. I played rogue back in the day through all content into late AQ40 and remember most things, but seeing a fresh guide on it would be interesting to me to recap and possibly learn new items as well.

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rouges are overpowdered.

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mace rogue ftw

:wink:

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yes as a warlock i use mace on rogues all the time.

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Swords wins DPS, but I honestly wouldn’t sweat it. You’re a rogue - your DPS will be fine with daggers. Also PvP.

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That’s what feint and vanish are for, right?? :laughing:

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Swords typically wins out because there is always more weapon options early on for it. If you manage to get your hands on some great daggers do not feel discouraged to go that build it’ll pull its weight as well.

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The dps difference is pretty minuscule if you aren’t horde. As alliance you get a +4 skill green from Jail Break! in BRD. Either way as a dagger rogue you are going to be focusing more on +crit gear than +hit and weapon skill is important, but there is only the one source for rogues until DM is released.

And if you work out the math, the extra 300 armor reduction from expose armor isn’t insignificant either

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I plan on getting the first perdition’s when it drops. I feel like all the warriors and rogues competing for swords will be a little ridiculous. I’ll play with maces in naxx. I just want to me at max potential and like I said earlier, from all the parses I’ve seen of speed runs, everyone is swords. I was never able to get the perdition’s in the past and always had a hankering for it. Sounds like the right choice.