I wish you two would learn to read…
In Beta Taunt set your threat to the top of the list permanently.
That’s actually the 1.1.0 update (launch vanilla update), there was another update in 1.11 that updated it again to be even stronger; that I remembered for certain. I took the liberty to actually look it up.
Not saying taunt was crap before, but it certainly was not as powerful as post naxx.
Patch 1.1.0
Taunt: Now gives the target just enough threat to attack you. Cooldown added.
Went and dug up the Kenco’s thing that the other guy was talking about.
This update he made from 21st of July 2006, shortly after Naxxramas.
Recently (1.11.x), the behaviour of Taunt has been buffed slightly. It now does three things:
Taunt debuff. The mob is forced to attack you for 3 seconds. Later taunts by other players override this.
You are given threat equal to the mob’s previous aggro target, permanently. Importantly, you won’t necessarily get as much threat as the highest person on the mob’s list, only as much as whoever is currently tanking it.
You gain complete aggro on the mob at the instant you taunt. Usually you would need 10% more threat to gain aggro (see section 3), but a taunt now gives you instant aggro on the mob. Of course if other people are generating significant threat on the mob, they could exceed your threat by more than 10% before the taunt debuff wears off, and will gain aggro as soon as it does. There is no limit to the amount of threat you can gain from Taunt.
Source data.
https://web.archive.org/web/20061109034626/http://evilempireguild.org:80/guides/kenco2.phphttps://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.1.0[Patch 1.1.1] Removed rage cost and global cooldown.
[Patch 1.1.0] Now gives the target just enough threat to attack you. Cooldown added.
[Patch 0.12] Now usable against targets that are immune to physical attacks.
[Patch 0.9] Changed Taunt to improve the effectiveness of Taunt rather than reduce the rage cost.
- Vanilla WoW: on release, Taunt did not create extra aggro for the warrior, it only forced the mob to attack the warrior for 3 seconds
I found this one Wowpedia.
also found something else
[[Enrage]] - The talent will now grant 5/10/15/20/25% extra damage when enraged, instead of 8/16/24/33/40%
Again I ask you to LEARN TO READ.
he mentions a SLIGHT buff, if it changed as much as you claim that is and INSANE buff.
If you compare the two lists of effects from 1.9 and 1.11 the only real difference is what happens if you taunt a mob who you do not have any threat on.
In 1.9 if you taunted a mob when you had no threat on it the hate target would switch back to whoever had it before taunt. After 1.11 that wont happen. Hence a slight buff since it doesn’t really affect anything.
So I guess I was wrong it wasn’t a beta patch but the release patch that made it give permanent threat. Since the line after I quoted was “The threat that the warrior gains from (A) is permanent”(Kenco threat from 1.9)
Either way tanking became a lot easier in 1.11, this I know for a fact. I’ts not just a he said. she said situation, its a fact, I know I was there. Tank swaps whent from slow down the DPS, and change tanks to smash face who cares.
So potentially the cumulative effect of both taunt and changes made to warrior tanking…
Regardless of the situation of what happened, things got easier.
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I cleared Naxx in Vanilla, quit WoW for several years, then got back into Mythic raiding for MoP and the 1st tier of WoD before burning out again.
There are so many more mechanics to modern raiding, but it never felt that much more difficult than raiding did in vanilla. Partly because modern characters just have so many more tools in their class kit to deal with mechanics. I raided a mage both eras of my raiding career and the difference in ability is vast. When I was frost I had Ice Block and Ice Barrier, while as a fire mage it was pretty much invulnerability pots. Blink was my only movement ability. By the time MoP rolled around every spec had Ice Block and Invisibility, a movement talent, and another defensive talent such as Ice Barrier. Yes there are more mechanics, but they’re easier to deal with.
The other thing that didn’t make all the additional mechanics seem so daunting is the quality of mods out there now. Raiding now days you have a mod that warns you every time an encounter mechanic is going to occur so have time to plan and react to it. Back in classic you were happy if the void zone that appeared beneath your feet was actually visible on your client side so you knew to move before it killed you.
Knowledge is also just so much more available now. Strat videos and guides are available and accurate as soon as new raid content is released because players are able to run it on test realms. Back in vanilla that knowledge was much harder to come across and if you were a progression guild you were going to spend a lot of time figuring out your own strats.
Finally, one factor that I never see discussed when talking about difficulty between the two eras is just how much more quickly wipe recovery is now. Wipe on a boss in vanilla and you’re spending a lot of time rezzing and rebuffing - partially as a consequence of having 40 people - and that’s after the time spent actually running back to the instance. The nearest graveyard was often pretty far away (Wiping on Twin Emps and if there was no soulstone or DI’d priest and enjoy your 30 minute run back and gauntlet clear) and if it was a later wipe you’d often have to clear respawned trash.
My guild possibly wiped on Mythic (then heroic) Garrosh more times than I wiped on all vanilla bosses combined, but because wipe recovery only took 5 minutes or less it just didn’t feel like you were putting in dozens and dozens of attempts. And that has an impact, because shorter recovery times means you’re going to learn the mechanics of the fight faster; not just because of the additional attempts but because you learn quicker when you repeat a task in quick succession.
I’m looking forward to raiding when the classic servers come out. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it regardless of if it’s as easy or difficult as it was back then.
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The real challenge of Vanilla raiding will be maintaining a 40 man roster after a month.
Um when you need to do tank swaps that little buff you are talking about is actually a huge buff.
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Ok I will try and explain this to you once more cause I have a few times and you seem too dense to grasp what changed in 1.11 since you did not tank in Vanilla.
Pre 1.11 tanks gained threat from 4 major sources.
White Swings(Scaled Positively with gear)
Heroic Strike(Scaled Negatively with gear)
Revenge(Scaled Negatively with gear)
Sunder Armor(Scaled Negatively with gear)
Because of this tank threat scaled negatively with gear pre 1.11 also the fact that all the defensive talents were early in prot meant you were better off running with 18 or less points in prot since that would get you more threat without sacrificing any real defensive abilities.
In 1.11 they added one additional ability to that list
Shield Slam which scaled well with gear, and did so with big bursts so now tanks had a way to generate a good amount of threat quickly if they had the gear for shield slam.
So tanks went from scaling negatively with gear to scaling positively with gear. I remember some my other tanks switching to try out shield slam after the patch(we had MC on farm and were working on Vael in BWL) they found that they saw almost no increase in tps while sacrificing a good chunk of damage outside of raid so by the end of the week they went back to there hybrid builds.
Go back reread what taunt did pre 1.11 and post 1.11 and notice the affects are basically the same. Hence why it was described as a SLIGHT buff. because the change didn’t really change all that much.
I do feel this is a matter of perspective. My guild was quite a bit further in progression, it’s my opinion that when your guild was doing the content has an impact on and changes the experience quite a bit.
Not saying your experience is invalid, I am saying I know what I saw and experienced, and that was very different from your situation.
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what I am trying to tell you is that 1.11 did very little to change tps for tanks before t2 once you started getting in t2+ gear it started scaling well and so you would see a change in tanking after 1.11 because a GLARING design flaw was finally remedied. However vanilla threat was terribly designed and poorly implemented, which is why it was eventually abandoned.
Yeah ok missed the part about when you don’t have any threat, I took it as the way it worked. I did link that it got changed to the way you said in 1.1 However It was not that way at launch. Also shield slam got added in 1.6 it just got upgraded to deal damage +based on block and also 20 rage instead of 30.
That’s a point of view, it’s something a lot of us rather enjoyed. Clearly not you.
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You recall wrong.
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shield slam was basically useless until 1.11. It required far too many points in prot to take, and it was actually a tps loss because it didn’t scale.
1.1.0 was the release patch so while I was wrong about it being in beta, Live vanilla wow always had taunt give perm threat.
and aggro tables. cant just bust nuts whenever whenever you want .
this is directly from wowpedia. The taunt we know has been around much longer than I thought, however it was not like that at launch so no live vanilla wow did not always have taunt give perm threat. Unless release is not live.
The way it was explained to me at the time, “just enough threat to attack you” meant just enough to keep aggro if, importantly, whoever pulled aggro stopped DPS. Otherwise the tank would have to generate additional threat faster than the aggro puller did. This meant that the tank’s regaining long term aggro required cooperation: the tank had to taunt and build more threat, and the DPS or healer had to let off a bit.
With the 1.11 changes, that wasn’t true any more, because for the DPS or heal to pull aggro again, they’d have to build up the aggro change margin again, in addition to whatever threat the tank generated. This meant that in normal circumstances, whoever was pulling aggro didn’t need to take any action; they could just keep maximizing their damage or whatever, and only the tank had to act.
It might not have felt different to the tanks, but it was a godsend to clueless DPS. While I think the fix to negative scaling with gear was necessary, I think the taunt buff eliminated a lot of the skill in playing raid DPS.
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well the way it was explained to you is wrong…
And if you would like to understand how it actually works you can verify it because some of us actually source our information, which happens to be in this very thread.