Stop listening to the morons asking for vanilla/tbc class design. Stop listening to streamers like esfand, the guy has no clue what he’s talking about and tbc is his crutch
Across the sea, Titanforge servers has 400k+ active players and it uses wrath class design with improvement and fixes.
Do not give us auto-attack simulator and 1button rotations, if people want that they can go play vanilla era
how about we use… vanilla class design 
since that’s the game classic+ is based on
So you want vanilla era with some new zones and raids.
Low effort slop, enjoy having less than 20k+ players after a couple months
Doing the Vanilla class design would be stupid.
There is a reason why they tested so many abilities in SOD.
What is the point of playing a game if you already know exactly how it works… might as well just play era. What made SOD special was the new stuff and new rotations.
WOTLK is when the most players played the game and where honestly class design was the most accessible for people, that’s probably the sweet spot…
the argument just go to era is one I don’t buy cause they keep changing era for whatever the next version is. We got SoM leaks, SoD leaks, and anniversary changes. I have no doubt whatever botched job Camelot does to vanilla will hurt era too.
So why not ask for Wrath+ because that’s what you want even if they re pigeonholed every bit as much as “vanilla” PVE and even more so in PVP… Wrath PVP is only good for very specific comp / classes builds. Vanilla despite most players lack of knowledge has a much broader lineup of viable PVP builds.
Also as result will scuff SoD if they use “vanilla” as the template.
Yep!
It’s what many private servers also use as a sweet spot. Every class/spec is viable in PvP and are easily changeable or improved
The game is much more enjoyable when we have proper rotations and feel fluid to play
Does it really matter if Arena is not a factor. Only reason classes needed balancing as much before is to remain competitive in Arena and I doubt the community wants arena in classic+
Saying this as a rogue profile is pretty funny. Vanilla/tbc is easily the worst iteration of PVP in this game
40sec saps, 12+ sec polys, engineering being a requirement for pvp and bgs are just premades avoiding each other so they can farm pugs
Titanforge is also essentially wrath+ which already extremely successful over in China
Because world PVP and Battlegrounds are far superior in terms of PVP enjoyment in vanilla over wrath because not everything has become a AoE confetti DoT fest yet. Vanilla already has too much AoE and Wrath takes that up 10X, its really stupid and bad design.
I play, Shaman, Mage, Paladin, Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, what should I post on?
BoP, Sac, Tremor, Cleanse, Dispel Magic, Devour Magic, Zerk rage, death wish, chicken, etc, etc, etc.. Just because players suck at using / Avoiding CC is not a game design problem, its a player problem.
Eng is not not required, my allies rogue has Enchanting / Herbalism and I never use any consumes on him and delete EFC’s on the regular.
Eng and Alchemy being useful in PVP is not a bad thing, it broadens the scope of what you can do with a class. This is not present in Wrath and this limits play potential and that’s bad.
Disagree
Daniak 3 is one of the highest viewed PVP movies of all time and it’s from Wrath
Reckful 3 is from Cata
Dremlock 4 is from Wrath
World PVP was still incredibly active on many servers past Vanilla, your enjoyment is opinion based. Battlegrounds were still enjoyable with wrath class design and had much higher PVP participation across the board
Yeah that’s why they kept wrath design and improved on it for the next 2expansions(cata/mop). Sure man
Engy not required for a class that already has a whole PVP kit
Doesn’t matter now, the game is already up when you say you want vanilla PVP while posting on a rogue.
I don’t even want TBC class design. Just fix the dumpster specs along vanilla class design.
Esfand wants Crusader Strike and Seal Twisting. Either of which would make Ret absolutely bananas strong for vanilla level pvp.
I cannot express how little I care about what China does.
SoD sucked extreme booty specifically because they threw so many abilities/powers from later versions of the game and it made the pvp unplayable, and required a complete rebalancing patch after every content patch just to upgrade the combat from “rancid-toxic dumpster fire” to “smoldering dumpster fire”… The further off vanilla abilities and gear get, the worse pvp is going to get.
Sounds like you just want to continue on into Wrath Classic. Enjoy your 90% DK bot bgs I guess. If the timeline thing is accurate, you’ll be getting Wrath-Anni soon enough anyway.
I’d also add, that vanilla pvp was better designed than both TBC and Wrath’s.
He does not understand, explain it to him like you would for a little child.
Preface this with “I will likely play what they give me” but I think a lot of the discourse on this is stuck due to the only Classic design being available to draw from are the two extremes (I guess?). Can either look at vanilla/era design or at SoD. When the reality of whatever the heck Camelot hyper plus classic is still widely unknown. I am not considering a strong Retail design influence in C+ FWIW.
So while your statement is 100% correct towards Vanilla/Era it may be wrong in regards to Classic+Knuckles, knights of the roundtable.
It has 400k+ active players and this game doesn’t, so what you say about it doesn’t really matter
Heard from other PVPers that phase 1,2 of SoD was the most fun they’ve had in PVP in years. SoD was a experiment and many people enjoyed it while many others didn’t
You were given abilities from later expansions, but none of the other abilities or talents that also came from that expansion. Having vanilla class design with random added abilities that don’t synergize with your toolkit doesn’t work
Yes, seal twisting. Class design that requires addons doesn’t sound very fluid does it?
TBC class design is the end result of fixing the dumpster specs in Vanilla. So if you don’t want TBC class design, I’m not sure what you want anymore
Yes
I await further evolution of naming conventions.
lmaoooo
It’s been my favorite part about the lead up to C+
Love spoofing the names of things. Can’t hold a convo about the actual thing so why not be light hearted about it 
helps maintain sanity.
Thank you, preach brother!
So many classic Andy’s want Classic+ to be Era plus a new quest line. They want no changes at all.
Whether you guys like it or not Camelot is coming and it’s gonna be even more retail flirty than SoD was. It’s the baby of both worlds colliding and yall gotta just be ready to accept change.
Like OP said, if you are stuck in your ways go back to Era. Camelot is for open minded classic lovers and retail Randy’s. Unite! Rejoice!
September or October, I will /yell throughout Durotar and Barrens chat “I came a lot for Camelot!” in the melody of Coldplay’s track Yellow.
You are not prepared!
Way, way more than that tbh. 1.4 million Northrend Beasts parses so far this week. Even if every single player was raiding, every single player was logged, and every single player was raiding on two characters, that would be 700k.
EDIT: Forgot to count tanks and healers. 200k tanks and 550k healers. So actually 2.1 million unique characters on Northrend Beasts this week. I guarantee you there’s millions of people playing it.
This is what most of the classic+ crowd want. look at Turtle wow, project epoch, duskhaven etc.
I hear what you’re saying and i agree, I’m more looking forward to wotlk anni than I am c+ for this reason, c+ isn’t for people like us. We have two versions of the game that have challenging content, let this be the “auto-attack simulator” for those that want it.