Part of these lasting relationships is related to difficulty though. If you AoE zerg down a dungeon, do you really bond with your group mates? Not really, it’s just a clear it, forget it, retail-like experience.
If you wipe a couple times, have to make improvements, then clear, THAT’s how you get lasting relationships.
Where did you find all this stuff? I suck at internet-ing.
Look, I’m nor here to toot my own horn. I just want the authentic overall Vanilla experience. Classic isn’t it. A frankly, I may not play because of it. I’ll wait a few months and see how steam roll everything is. I don’t plan to PvP or Raid. I just want to level - while knowing I’m playing what Vanilla was. When I see an epic item on a person, I want to think “Wow, he put in work”. Not, oh probably just PuGGEd MC with 20 people. It’s the first step to the state of current retail.
Long story short, people who are saying pre-1.12 Vanilla as being more tedious or “harder” (i hate that term) aren’t lying. Again, I can’t speak for low level dungeons. And people claiming ninja changes have a case, given Blizzards history of patch to patch, xpac to xpac - making things easier and easier and easier.
Yeah, you know I agree with you my mind definitely remembers it being harder, but the videos line up with it being correct. Its really odd, like the entire BerenSTAIN Bears concept.
Ill never be able to accept we were all capable of actually 2H Warriors pulling 10+ packs of mobs without a worry and just didn’t get around to it. Nor do I accept we were all bad, most of my guild came from Everquest, DaOC, hitting Frostbolt wasn’t hard, nor was hitting Sunder. There isn’t any skills we would even use from Retail in Vanilla as most fights up until raiding were tank and spanks, stationary fights with no real strategy at all. What skill did we get better at exactly? Pressing a button harder?
Overall I think something is screwed up, maybe the attack time on mobs, but not the damage or the damage received isn’t the actual damage being removed from your HP pool. This happened in Dota 2 where a crit would show pure damage, not the actual damage taken, and no one figured it out for 3 years, so developers make VERY silly mistakes sometimes.
If not that then im in an alternate Universe and none of you are real. In which case I want to go home. Im scared ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
I never did KZ or KJ. SO I am not saying you are wrong.
I am saying these are objectively massively different scenarios.
The average player has much easier access to mythic than the average player had to KZ.
That means filthy casual me might be attempting mythic KJ and getting crushed on a regular basis with no real shot at killing him because as Illidan would say - I AM NOT PREPARED!!!.
It’s like reverse trash. KJ was cutting us down on the regular where as KZ was having to fight the best of the best the servers had to offer.
I’d also say just getting to KZ for an attempt meant your raid was much more prepared than your avg mythic attempt was when mythic KJ became available.
I could be wrong but I dont think so.
They did have like patch 1.1 and 1.1111 and 1.10001111. I think? Do we have those? And I’m obviously kidding with some of the numbers. Point being each major patch having sub patches.
I like scouring patch notes interesting to see the stuff you remember and the stuff you completely forgot… got it all from wowpedia… of course it’s a slog scrolling though and reading/skimming it all.
Someone compiled a list of dungeon changes, I found the list they compiled is off too.
Classic is about social interaction, group coordination, and time management.
God bless. I don’t have the time nor the patience to do that lol. I tried wayback machine a bunch of times, but after a while, I couldn’t do it anymore.
Yeah way back machine is a bit more frustrating. I generally give up when I go that route. Fun to dink around on though.
I agree with the OP. Classic isn’t about skill, it’s about how much time you sink into the game. PvE is just a dps check with no mechanics. PvP is just about staying logged in longer than everyone else.
Vanilla WoW - people claimed the boxes, if you remember that games used to come on CDs you bought at the store, was laced by Blizzard. Video game addiction is now a recognized disorder thanks to Vanilla and the 2000s MMO scene.
The sub patches are listed there with the main patches… not all though. The wowpedia site I was using had all the main patches. It was sub patches that would have numbers listed but no patch notes associated. I actually checked the wayback machine link for those specifically and it doesn’t appear to have them either.
Idk mate, multi rank one blizzcon champions died more than 50 times before reaching level 30. What do you call that?
I call that an easy game.
Sooooo you’re for Vanilla but now it’s that the game is super easy, boring & without community you’d be on retail?
Anyone who’s played since Vanilla knows we haven’t been playing the same game. It’s like comparing 90s basketball to today, my elbows are fresh brah!
I don’t know about you, but needing 10x more attempts to down a boss isn’t exactly something that screams “players are SIGNIFICANTLY better now” to me.
Those fights that take 500+ attempts are significantly more difficult.
It looks like it was patch 1.10 when they re-worked priests, including taking greater heal from 4s to 3s and cutting down the mana cost of a bunch of spells, plus improving talents. How much difference that made at low levels, I don’t know. I know that for a very long time, nobody would PuG Stratholme with 5 people, and that became routine by early 2006.
And who says they didn’t have 500+ attempts on bosses in Naxx? Some random person on the internet who’s pulling numbers out of a hat? People were working on JUST the 4 horseman fight for twice as long as it took Method to down the entirety of Mythic Tomb of Sargeras. And he says they did Naxx in 10x less total boss attempts and is supposed to be believed? He’s also throwing out misinformation since it wasn’t 1k attempts on KJ. (The entire raid count adding up every boss was a bit over 1k. It was 653 attempts on KJ, a lot but almost half the number he was claiming)
MC just was not a good idea to pug back in the day. Without people who knew the positioning, a core hound would fear you into the lava… regardless of how buffed classes were by 1.12 .