Generally speaking, the role part of Rpg. The holy trinity of dps/tank/healer played a much more important role. They all relied on each other but now most classes can do abit of it all. Warrior is the prime example. As long as I have things to kill I can keep my health full
There’s a reason both modes exist. Stay in your lane and don’t try to campaign to make retail like classic again. It’s never going to happen.
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I do get what you are saying and thank you for providing actual examples.
As apposed to this which is essentially based off of vibes. Going by this metric, I would say in all sincerity that dragonflight is 100 times the rpg that classic is.
But going back to what pearlight was saying, I think it’s a tricky balance between having these certain elements and having them be meaningful but not tedious.
Ammo for hunters was a big one. That’s undoubtedly an immersive rpg element in theory, but in practice it was a dps tax that only one class had to pay.
In everquest there is a hunger and thirst mechanic which is another rpg staple in theory, but in practice it was something that had almost no impact on the game and was just mostly a minor nuisance to have to remember to check your inventory to make sure you had a couple of stack of rations and water before you headed out. It didn’t really add anything to the experience of the game.
I think these types of things work better in single player games than mmos.
But it wasn’t
So it’s still an arpg.
That’s my point
And my point is, it felt like less of one due to the almost turn-based speed of the combat lol.
Hence my pressing that the current WoW is more of one, just because it’s inherently sweatier. Everyone is better at the game, and it demands more of the player.
You’re not relaxed when you’re doing high end content.
You were likely very relaxed doing high end content in Classic, spamming Shadowbolt. People would get drunk in those old raids to spice things up, they were bored.
Now it just like we are pushing something for an agenda.
Being “sweaty” has nothing to do with the definition.
How fast you push the buttons has nothing to do with the definition.
You cite a specific definition, then use a personal metric separate from anything stated in the definition to say retail is more or less of something
This may be due to old raids needing 40 people. Old wow demanded more of the player in overworld content though. Now unless your pushing high delves or mythics it’s basically easy mode
You could easily avoid anything difficult in world content though
You could, but the threat isn’t there at all now. There were also elite quests at that time that required some help.
Edit: all bear in mind nearly every class/spec can pull every mob in the area without much concern and food is simply for buffs, not health. A “heard earned victory” just isn’t a thing
All I said is that modern WoW feels more like an ARPG.
That’s it.
What agenda do you think I’m pushing, lol?
Literally just discussing differences/similarities between APRGs, and current WoW.
Diablo 3/4 has a ton more in common with Retail than it does with Classic, and it’s largely the speed and frantic nature of the game I am referring to.
It’s hard.
Classic/Vanilla kinda wasn’t, not in the same ways.
You died from something like an overpull, not frantically avoiding lasers and getting hit by one.
Sure. And you could just ignore it all.
So it’s weird to say “retail is ez mode if you ignore the hard stuff”, when the same thing can happen in classic?
I didnt play WoW 20 years ago because I knew Id hate it.
Just had to read comments and the official description of it.
2017 brother in law told me the game had changed, so we tried it and liked it.
I ran numerous classes in classic a while back, couldnt stand it.
The only redeeming quality was wands were much cooler.
Other than that, I’ll take retail, thanks
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It’s just weird to cite a definition of retail WoW being an arpg
Then ignore that definition to say one is more or less an arpg.
Sorry, I wasn’t descriptive enough but it’s genuinely how I feel about it.
god this is so true. wands are really useless now aren’t they
They can both be APRGs, but one can lean more into the tenets of the genre than the other.
Is that so hard to grasp?
Because I don’t see the comparison you’re trying to make. The “hard stuff” is only relegated to end game progression as opposed to before, hard stuff was all over the place and readily available to any player of any level
Edit: a perfect example of this is simply level/zone scaling
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Which tenet of the genre is WoW leaning into, based on the definition you gave of arpg?
I like how you didn’t list a single example on why you feel that way. Go play classic if that’s how you feel, it’s right there.
oh yeah. I bought an arcane wand off the AH in classic for mage…i used it more than i did my spells. Very cool. Wish theyd bring that part of classic back, for sure.
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