Because its still fun, and as terrible as this makes retail sound, better than retail.
Retail raids are great, but the rest of the game is poop. Sorry M+ is also cool.
Excellent point. We can pretty much blame the āno changersā for the lack of appropriate raid tuning in classic. There is no good reason why raid content wasnāt tuned up at least a little bit to compensate for today gamers. All they had to do was increase the health of bosses significantly, and increase raid wide damage to be slightly more punishing on some fights. As it is now fights are so short there is no reason for healers to manage their resources. They can just sit and dump mana no problem. This makes healing very boring and trivializes fights entirely.
But we also need to recognize an important fact. There is a huge gulf between the average player and the players that stomp the raid content in classic. While something like 30% of the guilds in classic will handle raid content easily, the other 70% is really terrible at it and itās hard to see this group of players when youāre in a good guild. Casuals have taken over this game. They like stuff to be accessible and easy. To them it is hard.
We really needed an option for heroic raids in classic. Hopefully they donāt miss the chance with TBC. We need the ability to choose our difficulties.
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All they had to do was increase the health of bosses significantly
To be fair, they designed these bosses without realizing players 15 years later would have summon systems and mind control exploits to load up on temporary world buffs and use them to bludgeon raids down.
50% of Cāthun kills are longer than 11 minutes without world buffs. A 99th percentile speed kill of Cāthun without world buffs is 7 minutes. That suggests to me that the HP tuning isnāt bad.
It would be insanely dumb to tune the game around world buffs. You would need to zone out after every wipe and get summoned around the world again and drop a new head and heart.
The much smarter play would be to disable them entirely.
We need the ability to choose our difficulties.
I would expect Naxxramas without world buffs to be fairly challenging. It has been on private servers. Iād suggest not using them.
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Yes. This exactly, thank you.
You should absolutely do this lol. I would love to see you light your money and dignity on fire.
1st off they can change the game as they please without warning or consent. Its in the agreement you signed
2nd its not that the content is nerfed, its your rose tinted glasses blinding you. 1st time you went in it was new and fresh with no strategies. Now we know everything ahead of time. We play better, do more damage, have better strats.
What did you really expect?
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Just want to point this out. Patchwerk has 3.9 million HP. Naxx groups will take 12 healers, 4 dedicated tanks who can swap in weapons for a few fights, and 24 dps.
If your 4 tanks do 300 dps each, and your 24 dps do 700 each, that adds up to a 3:30 patchwerk kill. Right now, this mark of dps is the 75th percentile of dps on Flamegor. Do you think your dps can maintain that 700 average threshold for 3 and a half minutes? Healers will definitely be challenged with that type of kill speed - once you cross the 3 minute mark as a healer, you should be feeling the pressure of running completely oom. This is including full consume usage - starting with a mana flask, full mp5 buffs, and burning your potions and runes as soon as possible. Letās also keep in mind that the 75th percentile of raid dps on Flamegor is being boosted by world buffs. If you - gasp - wipe to Patchwerk and lose your buffs, the fight will be significantly more challenging.
Sapph the first week will pose a similar challenge to healers. Loatheb is the other big number crunch boss in Naxx. If you dont have world buffs, expect each pull of Loatheb to cost your raid hundreds of gold in consumables.
Heās claiming to have been apart of a World First guild at one point in his WoW tenure; of course everything is going to be super easy for him.
Just because itās easier doesnāt make it worst mate.
Almost 20 years ago I played Banjo Kazooie all summer and loved every minute of it. Played it again last month and beat that sucker 100% in under 8 hours. I couldnāt believe how much easier and smaller it felt.
Still had a blast playing it. Thatās how time works, both sides of the coin regarding Classic were right. The haters said it would be too easy, they were right. The fans said it would still be fun, they too are right.
Nostalgia is still there but we really got much better as gamers.
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Patch 1.6.0 12 July 2005 4500 1600
Blackwing Lair introduced Warlock talent trees revamped Warrior talent trees revamped Patch 1.7: Rise of the Blood God Hunter Talent update Patch 1.8: Dragons of Nightmare Druid Talent update. Patch 1.9: The Gates of AhnāQiraj Patch 1.9.0 3 January 2006
Instances: The Gates of AhnāQiraj The Ruins of AhnāQiraj (outdoor 20-player instance) The Temple of AhnāQiraj (indoor 40-player instance) Patch 1.9.3 7 February 2006 ZulāGurub modified Fights changed: Hakkar, Panther, Spider, Bloodlord. Number of trash mobs reduced to allow quicker completion. Zandalar reputation points increased. Loot drop rate modifications Patch 1.10: Storms of Azeroth Priest talent revamp Patch 1.11: Shadow of the Necropolis Patch 1.11 20 June 2006
Mage adjustments and talent revamp Shaman adjustments and talent revamp Patch 1.12: Drums of War Patch 1.12 22 August 2006 Rogue adjustments and talent revamp Threat Reduction Effects changes Haste and Slow effects have been revised
These are all things we were born with in classic that matter in the patch notes. Now iām going to find everything to do with raid nerfs
(LINK TO METHOD WEBSITE HERE)
[Method - Esports Organisation, WoW Guides, Videos, Streams and News]
Method is a professional esports organisation with teams, World of Warcraft Guides, Videos, Streams and News.
method has a great explanation of a lot of the things goings on there.
There was elitist jerks.
Back in the day, they were pretty much the authority on game mechanics, with their guys being the first ones to spot bugs and knowing stuff about the game often better than Blizzard themselves. Anything that was a consensus on EJ you could pretty much treat in-game as gospel aā¦
this was the source of where theorycrafting wow originated. Believe it or not, we itemized then, the same way we do now, because of this guild and their forums
(insert link of death wish world first kill of solarian astromancer)
(insert link of astromancer kill)
(insert image of my name in Astromancer kill video)
hereās my proof of existence with death wish that i could find most easily right now, i know itās bc, but nothing else exists anymore.
the only reason i bring this up is because i feel i need to validate that I do have the experience Iām talking about
I was a big part of Death and Taxes alsoā¦ they consulted with me on how to warlock because I was writing the guides in Elitist Jerks, because I outperformed everybody on Patchwerk because of my rotation, use of siphonlife/dark pact and rejuv pots. So yes we went hard with consumes and world buffs.
I was invited to their guild but refused because i didnt want to level an alliance warlock back then.
if you watch any of the world first videos that donāt have warrior spam strategies, youāll see that the fights actually took longer and that it took more effort and focus on mechanics.
found it : (insert link to elistist jerks wayback archive) just google elitist jerks wayback
A site dedicated to intelligent discussion of the popular MMORPG World of Warcraft.
that website alone should prove all of my points.
if you have any further questions about any of this, refer to thatā¦
i do understand that everyone then had to discover and adjust to learn fights and that everything is known, nowā¦ but within those forums are all the complaints on the ninja nerfs and all of the changes to bosses and when they happened in the timeline of release. There was always a un-nerfed version and then a nerfed version, all the way through tbc until wotlk
have a good time! and enjoy the history!
I copy pasted this from my discord discussion where people tried to tell me that people are more geared now, didnāt know how to itemize, and that the fights were the same.
This is my effort to dispell all of that.
And to those of you who want to have ad homen/straw man/(insert fallacy here) arguments, this dispells you, too.
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This was a nerf to players, btw. People seem to forget that lots of broken, powerful things were also nerfed in Vanilla.
ive said it before in 2 other threads. increase raid boss and trash hp and damage by 15%. not for any reason other than people have the capability to play this game without fear of hardware limitations and they have a vast database of knowledge about every aspect of the game. it would be a good faith change. one that would be intended to replicate the classic experience.
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ive said it before in 2 other threads. increase raid boss and trash hp and damage by 15%. not for any reason other than people have the capability to play this game without fear of hardware limitations and they have a vast database of knowledge about every aspect of the game. it would be a good faith change. one that would be intended to replicate the classic experience.
That just further incentivizes world buffs. You canāt balance a game when some players have 100% more damage and 30% more HP and mana.
i mean. thats not false. but like, who cares? do you not like people getting world buffs?
i mean. thats not false. but like, who cares? do you not like people getting world buffs?
I donāt. It would be completely insane to tune the game around world buffs. Do you think itās good gameplay to feel the need to zone out after each wipe and get summoned around the world and drop a new head and heart for every pull?
Really they should just turn them off in Ahnāqiraj and Naxxramas at least for the first month or so after release.
thats an excessive assumption to make. raids in classic are about execution. if the raid understands the fight they will not need world buffs. there are a lot of raids now that simply brute force bosses down without paying attention to mechanics. and world buffs are voluntary. dont like them? dont get them. your guild requires them? find a new guild.
Yeah whatever but why do you want to make the game harder if you like world buffs in the game that completely destroy any semblence of difficulty?
They should make it so you can only have one world buff on at a time, imo. Keep the flavor of world buffs, decimate the stacking meta.
personally idc about world buffs. if i happen to be standing in sw when ony goes off thats nice. and when my guild raids they summon me out to stranglethorn for zg buff and thats nice. but i parse well without world buffs and i dont stress it. and my guild is cool about them. they arent a requirement but they are encouraged. increasing raid boss hp and damage by 15% would make world buffs be required by more guilds, you are right about that. but its not like every guild would then require world buffs for every raid. thats just not realistic.
really the only real reason why raid gear is difficult to get is due to how many raids we can run per week. id like that to change to whether or not you are able to clear the raid.
That and raids have to divide the loot between 40 people, contrast that to 10~30 raiders in modern WoW.
Thereās also no such thing as badge gear or its equivalents in classic. Only crafted and rep gear, and both are usually time taking and a lot more situational.