Class Tuning Incoming -- February 7 (Updated)

yes, but it’s 5% of Mythic Raiders which is a very small fraction of the playerbase (and quite a low sample size after the first few bosses)

It does matter (more from perception than actually mattering), but it’s not the best metric for overall spec performance

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I’m interested in the ret paladin rework (although just building in healing isn’t going to fix our suitability issues with the aggressive dampening) … but you couldn’t improve the class with tweaks in the mean time? Ret has been absolutely decimated since you took the only advantage of burst away from us. There has been literally 1 ret in AWC, who didn’t advance (wonder why), and the ladders are embarrassing compared to other specs. I also find it funny that you immediately addressed ret burst, but haven’t adjusted other classes that rely on massive burst windows for a win condition.

100% of the DPS are not playing Ret.

I figured 10% do. Thus the 0.5% of playerbase.

A tiny number of people play Ret at the very top level, most are playing it at the average level. You have to choose how to balance so which do you balance for?

If you can only do Aoe with shadow crash, you’re playing Spriest wrong. Shadow crash is big, but its not the difference of killing imps or not.

It’s a Christmas miracle.

Genuinely surprised to see this. Not sure it’ll fix frost, but hey it’s something.

Edit: guess I didn’t expect more changes.

That’s pretty cool too. Basic, but cool.

Fix the Trading Post while at it

For DK Frost if Frigid Executioner, Rage of the Frozen Champion and Might of the Forzen Wastes affects Frostscythe could be good

Please, for the love of all that’s Holy, take Forbearance off Lay on Hands…

I see WW Monks complaining they are awful at ST and to buff it and get all disgusted. Same thing with BM Hunters and AOE.

But when it comes to AOE, Monk is top of the food chain… at BM Hunter is top of the food chain for ST.

You can’t have it all. Now I get this is just my opinion, but I like the fact most specs are PRIMARILY good at one or the other, or other things like cleave, burst etc… and not ALL. Once you homogenize the specs the game, in my opinion, gets boring and unexciting. Each spec seems to have it’s specialty that they excel at, and one or two things they are below average at. To me this IS balance.

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I think you’d get MW’s to use it if you remove the 1.5 sec activation as well. It’s hard to get players to stand in it or run into it and it’s going to cause unpredictable damage/cc to the MW with this change.

Should turn them around .

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Thank you for your post. Adding 2 charges to Shadow Crash constitutes an entire rework?

What is your point? It sounds like you’re saying there’s no changes needed to any spec or class so long as someone can do a key way higher than +15 with it. By your logic, game is completely balanced as is - no more changes needed.

While I’m not thrilled at how few their overall changes were for Guardian, I’m going to try them in action before I rip it. They did fix T&C to include magic damage and the iron fur armor changes are significant for physical damage, which is a fair chunk of where we are getting pummeled on fortified weeks especially.

I’m leaning towards the following build as my new go to. With Earth Warden, AOE Tooth and Claw with Raze, Incarn, ROTS, After the Wildfire, and galaxy bear build… with the much more increased heavy physical armor it might just be viable at higher keys. I’ll save my rage for post testing next week if not. But combined with tooth and claw and a barksin cooldown popped or ROTS, you can mitigate a lot of magic damage. It’s unfortunate it needs so many gcd’s to setup.

No sacrifice of dps with this build either.

Note to developers: what we really need right now in combination with your proposed upcoming changes is increased rage generation, approximately 20% faster than what we generate now. Bear always, always feels starved for rage unlike prot warrior. You guys even posted a developer note just before launch on prot forums saying you felt prot warrior worked so well because of the increased rage generation. Guardian doesn’t even have a talent to increase our max rage to 120. That and faster rage regen could really help us to stack higher iron furs without having to criple ourselves on maul’s or raze’s when they aren’t procced. It feels like half the time i’m just begging my rage bar to fill up so i can cast something, anything… Would be really really cool to be able to store more than 100 rage…

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I’ve been messing with using Ursoc’s more. If you can build a decent absorb before the magic damage comes out it seems to lessen the blow a good bit. The problem is when you can’t and you get nuked through Ironfur.
I’ll say it again… add magic dr to IF. Super easy win.
Or more extensively they could undo the pruning since Legion and let bears be bears.

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preservation evoker probably needs more like a 20% nerf to bring it down from the stratosphere. But it would probably be more fun for everyone if we brought up the floor instead of bringing down the ceiling.

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I play 5 healing classes and I agree evoker had to get nerfed (and can still be nerfed and do better than all others probably). But druid is above other classes heads and shoulders? No, they are not my good sir…

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My general philosophy (although not easily measured) is if a spec is bad enough in specific content that players aren’t getting invites because of their spec, that spec needs to be buffed. Any single raid boss is content. A single M+ boss is not content, but the whole M+ dungeon (taking affixes into account) is content.

This means that as long as there’s purely single-target raid bosses, all specs need to have fairly similar single-target damage capability. Some classes may be able to be a bit behind if they have strong raid utility (which is useful in those particular fights), but for the most part damage is the most important thing (especially when the fight has a mechanic that makes it a damage check).

WW Monks cry about being bad at single-target mostly because they’re at the bottom of the “Damage to Bosses” chart for the raid. This doesn’t itself indicate a problem for a couple reasons:

  • damage to bosses isn’t the only thing that matters
  • part of their damage to bosses being low could be because they are not talenting/playing to maximize damage to bosses (particularly for boss fights with adds)
  • the all-bosses charts are just a broad picture of single-target damage in the raid, but what really matters is if the spec is bad at any individual boss fight

So let’s say they decide to buff WW Monk because they’re bad on Terros (well, they’re only really bad at high percentiles). There’s a lot of ways they could be buffed.

  • flat % damage increase?
    • probably not, WW Monk performs very well in M+
  • change the Terros boss fight in a way that WW Monk will be better at it?
    • not likely at this point
  • give WW Monk new raid utility (or buff existing) that will make them more desirable particularly on the Terros fight (without making them overall OP)?
    • maybe, if you can think of something good
  • adjust WW Monk damage cooldowns to better match the timers of the Terros boss fight?
    • perhaps; I don’t know how much can be done here, but this could have a big effect on their performance on other bosses
  • buff some of WW Monk’s single-target damage abilities such as Tiger Palm and Rising Sun Kick?
    • maybe, but those abilities are still used in all content; you would have to nerf something like their aoe or burst damage to maintain balance (which a lot of players would be fine with, but maybe we can avoid this)
  • buff some of their single-target damage talents (or add new ones) which are not taken in M+ and most Raid bosses because the aoe talents are stronger?
    • I think this idea is the best; for pure single target damage there are several talents for spinning crane kick and aoe touch of death you can give up for
      • Touch of the Tiger - 2 points for 30% Tiger Palm damage; this can be buffed to around 100% to have roughly 3% more damage in single target build
      • Rising Star - 2 points for 10% Rising Sun Kick damage; this can be buffed to around 20% to have roughly 2% more damage in single target build
      • Last Emperor’s Capacitor - 1 point (plus a weak prerequisite that isn’t usually taken) for occasional strong (~2 Rising Sun Kicks of damage) Crackling Jade Lightning (about 2 per 90 seconds of constant damage uptime); not sure if this is currently even taken for single-target because the 3.7 second channel and need for damage uptime to charge it; the channel time needs to be dramatically reduced (or just instant cast would be even better); might need further buffs but the damage isn’t too bad if it takes 2 less globals

If you’ve got any other ideas on how WW Monk could be buffed (without making it busted), let me know.

Evoker is better in raid, but Druid and Evoker are both considered S tier in M+. Druid is played a bit more in high keys.

Just going to leave this here.

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Oh wow, Blizzard remembered Beast Mastery Exists… and while its good that they finally gave a little attention to it, slapping a simple aura buff, shows how little they still care, and just wanted to try and get the complainers to shut up. Still nothing done about the terrible survivability/defensive cds, horrible pet “AI”, underwhelming aoe, and a lot of talents that are very poorly designed, with some of them that should be baseline (hunters without misdirection if they do not talent into it, how dumb is that?). Also being forced to choose talent builds that focus only in AOE, or only in ST just feels bad, specially when there are many other classes/specs that can do builds that perform well in both ST, AOE and even Cleave all in the same build.