Tone-Deaf changes. Fire Mage is the PvE mage class. If mages want to pvp they’ll switch to Frost. Buffing fire absurdly for pvp shows Blizz is still out of touch.
We have three in the meta build.
Just going to put this out there that YOU said thunder clap was the AoE for arms.
What ability does boomy use in 5-10 targets that does good damage? I have yet to see any class with only uncapped aoe doing good in that range.
No I said the arms buff isnt even a buff at all. We don’t even use WW. Then I said, Cleave and Thunder clap are our AOE attacks, and WW isnt even on our actions bars.
Neither fury or arms have WW on their action bar for M+
I’m a 3k io warrior, AOTC and parse over 90%. I think I have a decent idea of how warrior dps works.
We have a 4.5 second cooldown 5 soft capped aoe that does not even hit hard. We then are stuck spamming a HARD CAPPED at 5 aoe the rest of the time. Long cooldowns don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. It’s why paladin AOE is so much better than ours. It’s SOFT capped at 5… but they get to spam it.
It’s why Boomkin and Unholy are TENS of million more dps than ours… they are uncapped. I could go on, but either you’re too dumb to wrap your head around it, or you’re intentionally being thick.
I never denied this.
They are literally capped, everyone is in some way.
No boomkins are not capped… at all.
Starfall - Calls down waves of falling stars upon enemies within 40yds, dealing 350k damage over 8 seconds. Multiple uses of this ability may overlap -
You literally hit EVERY TARGET for that damage with no soft cap or hard cap at all.
Unholy DK has epidemic - Dark Transformation, blood beast, and spammming Epidemic you have UNCAPPED AOE.
The 2 classes that are uncapped… just so happen to be meta specs. Boomkin and Unholy dk… shocking…
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exactly. there’s nothing to get used to because they only exist for some specs/classes. for the classes that don’t suffer from them, it’s business as usual while everyone else got worse by comparison. complete design failure.
it’s the same basic problem as the “nobody gets increased melee range anymore (except ret paladins)” attempt to fix something that wasn’t really broken.
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Three weeks.
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I want to go back and add up all the hot fixes and see how far from the start we ended up. There are some abilities that do seem to yo-yo comically…
I suppose at the key level I’ve play (up to 14s) I just haven’t come to this conclusions. Keys are always a team effort and when I’m not tanking, as DPS I find I have meaningful impacts on the success of keys. Maybe a highly-skilled VDH can carry more and allow the DPS to do less.
That part is the community problem. Maybe if I invite a VDH I can be a bit more sloppy/lazy, I don’t know. The thought never crosses my mind personally. If I’m on my hunter with two melee, my interrupts matter less than when I’m with 2 casters and we all have long interrupt cooldowns so I have to be more on my game but in that extreme it’s usually still doable if people are good.
I was referring to what you originally said, didn’t want to clog up my post quoting it:
That’s arguable. According to Archon there’s 8 dps specs that have not timed a +20. None of them are warriors.
When they’re buffing the non-hard-capped damage, that “vast majority” gets smaller. I know it’s not the buffs you want or enough to make Warriors meta, but it’s a step in the right direction.
Epidemic isn’t just uncapped, it deals more damage per target for each additional target. Blood Beast too in a more roundabout way. These abilities are designed to be OP against many targets.
It’s not that simple; tuning matters a lot. Arcane is largely hard-capped, but became meta after repeated % buffs. Unholy wasn’t meta at all last season.
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And once again, leaving out the context of my comment. Thunderclap still only let’s us hit 5 targets. We are hard capped at 5. Thunderclap, the ability itself is soft capped at 5, but it let’s us “cleave” 5 targets for (4) swings. So our AOE is HARD CAPPED at 5.
If you’re seriously arguing that warrior is NOT in a horrible place right now for M+, you literally automatically lose this debate because you’re simply clueless.
The only reason some of these specs are not above a 20, is because everybody else is playing the top tier spec for that class right now. BM is MILES better than fury warrior in keys, but on the “tier list” that just goes off of score it’s lower, because all the good hunters are plying MM. Frost DK, fire mage, and frost mage are the same.
Warrior brings ZERO utility to M+ and we are one of the worst AOE dps classes in the game.
I’m not saying we need to be meta, BUT I’m saying we need to bring SOMETHING to the table. We don’t have a lust, we don’t have a battle rez, we don’t have a good group utility defensive. All we bring is damage, and we are well below average on that front in keys. My paladin is 21 item level lower than my warrior, brings way more utility to my keys AND for the overall run, does 500k more dps. Again, I’m a 90% + parser on the warrior, so it’s not like I’m just bad at the class…
At the end of the day, you’re clueless, you’re looking at data that you don’t understand. And you don’t understand it because you do ZERO end game content.
If a player with the same skill were playing the following classes -
Boomkin, Unholy DK, Arcane Mage, Feral Kitty, Oulaw Rogue, Assassination Rogue, Ret Pally, ele shaman, MM Hunter, Enhancement shaman, Evoker, Frost DK, Desto, Demo, and Affliction lock, Windwalker monk, Fire and frost mage, and BM Hunter.
You’re going to take ALL those classes/specs before a warrior in almost every situation. Because even IF some of those up there don’t do as much damage as a warrior… and most of them do more… they also bring utility.
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Starfire? That’s why it got a nerf
Still livid about this change, especially when this basically got done in the order of:
- Give Ret pallies an extended melee range too
- Only then is extra melee range suddenly getting “out of hand”
- Get rid of the bonus melee range for the classes/specs that had it except Paladin
And this is how we have classes that regress in their QoL and create disparities, we need a bit more functional equivalence between classes and specs, not just making the same aspect of one class or the other worse because “reasons”
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dh/pally both afford you to just do less the entire dungeon, this makes the dungeon faster because it reduces mental load on everyone else and lets you do pulls no other tanks can do cause of interrupts. this is on average, there are obviously times where the people playing them are just not good enough but those are the exceptions not the rules. this doesn’t really come down to community, they are objectively going to make your run easier on average when those specs are strong. if they are weak it is usually cause they just get 100-0’d randomly (season 1 DF vdh, season 1 TWW ppal until .5 patch are examples of times where they were flopping).
I hear you. Some tanks definitely need some love for their kit to help in M+ but again, if you’re looking at the 99.95th percentile, there will always be a skew towards particular tanks, healers and dps specs as there is in world first raid kills. At the core levels 10-12, I don’t think the situation is as grim as it’s made out to be. Every mix of classes is going to be different. Don’t discount that many people might just enjoy playing DH because their kit is fun.
VDH in S1 had a learning curve yes but I enjoyed that part because it felt very satisfying to understand what was happening, asking my guild, the community, tweaking talents and play style a bit and then finally overcoming the problem. I’m a much better tank through that.
I don’t know the exact details on who is capped or uncapped at what numbers, but the whole thing still mystifies me. I just can’t get my head around some people only hitting 5-8 and some hitting everything and there’s no, like, “oh yeah the guy who hits 8 will make the uncapped guy look like he’s terrible at single target” thing to counter it.
Someone in here also tried to justify Outlaw aoe being capped because “their aoe rotation is the same as their single target rotation but you hit blade flurry” like there aren’t specs who have less buttons to aoe and single target combined than Outlaw has to single target.
slow, quiet Outlaw rage
Nah just kidding, I quit the spec in df lol.
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I’m happy to see hunters even mentioned this round, but still waiting for our butchery to be restored to it’s former glory [3 swings before cd, it was our best aoe].
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I was so disappointed when they removed ranged melee from my class…it wasn’t like it was even that huge of an advantage, only that it gets exhausting having to constantly be smashed up a mobs backside to get a hit in while a million aoes are spamming around you.
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Of course he knows the 99.95th percentile, he’s in it lol.
I think he’s saying that a little skew is fine, but the skew that they’ve been giving to 1-2 tanks every season for a few years now are just getting out of control. Seasons where one tank just does 50% more dps, or can survive infinite mobs every 3min, or can lock an entire pull down by itself.
We all know every tank can do higher than 12s, but generally for people who won’t get to +20s and for who +12 or +10 is their endgame, if you can wait a few more minutes for the stronger class to lower the effort required and increase your odds of winning then it’s an easy choice. At least with dps there’s 3 slots open so if one dps has the same impact as vdh/ppal does, there’s still 2 more slots you have to fill.
And many vdh players would rather play a different tank but feel they have to play meta to push further. I think before the redesign in Dragonflight that made them strong there was a very small amount of vdh players.
Brewmaster has very low numbers right now but I bet if they broke it next month suddenly the leader boards would be full of monks, because that’s just how the player base runs.
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