we must be playing different games highest key frost dk has done is 22. none are over 2.9k . meanwhile ret has players over 3k one at 3.1k all the specs are over 3.1k. u can play anything up to 22s comp doesnt matter. 24s ive found comp starts to make a difference by a lot. design doesnt equal viability.
Thats a high key for the majority of people out there. Some people are saying Frost cant even do a +10 or get invited. Its making something sound absolutely worse than it is.
Well those keys donât matter but when a spec is 300 io behind other non meta specs. There an issue. My main is a DK and my unholy is so much stronger than frost. I tried frost in couple of 20s and itâs damage felt subpar.
You mean 100-200 at the absolute top according to your information you presented? Now its 300?
Rets have lower lows as does unholy, and its not until a +22 when it starts to dip. If we are getting out the these tiny measuring tools to have something to complain about you dont really have anything to complain about.
No they do not have lower lows. Lmao. And yes itâs about 300 rating since no frost DK is over 2.9 but ret are over 3.1. not exact but itâs a round number. Please donât start talking about spec lows and highs when havnt done any keys.
Well guess what, I dont agree with any of that either. Too many points for all those abilties. Thanks for pointing it out.
Oh and cold blooded rage, donât make me lol. Its the worst 2 point talent in the game, change my mind. There was a damn really good reason nobody took that power in BFA but if you want me to tell you its because it was complete and utter chance upon chance garbage! 
You can just look at the data. Its out there. Ret and Unholy have lower lows.
And again, if you have to get out these tiny measuring tools to find any fault, then you shouldnt be complaining about anything.
Yes. Cold-Blooded Rage. It increases the value of Frost Strike and is a mandatory talent if you are going to get Obliteration. Unlike Killer Frost, its not a choice.
Killing Machine is also a chance on a chance.
Yep Iâm looking at the data and you are wrong. Seems you just like to troll and I took the bait. My bad should of known better.
Then you arent looking at the data. Sorry but you arent. Or are you not looking at overall performance and still cherry picking within a small window at the pinnacle of players which you arent anywhere close to either.
Look at logs and ranking s. You have provided zero data backing your claims and yet I have provided several. So stop making stuff up to try and back yourself up doesnât work. Please understand data before posting.
If your argument is âThe logs/data show FDK is in a worse state than Ret and therefore is more deserving of a reworkâ then youâre being purposely obtuse at best, disingenuous at worst.
I had discussions during Beta, both on the forums and in the DK Discord, about the problems Frost had from a design perspective. That feedback was generally ignored. Ret is objectively in a worse spot design wise than FDK. FDK players didnât realize the design issues with Frost until recently. Ret issues were already known before launch.
Ret getting redesign before FDK/Survival/ even when theyâre numerically fine is because their tree had less work put into it than the first iteration of Frost, received 0 updates during beta, and has major, serious design flaws. This 10.0.7 âreworkâ is really just bringing Ret into the same level tree wise as every other spec.
Oh, and itâs difficult to announce changes for Frost DKs when players only recently started complaining about design issues (compared to Ret who have been since August), and itâs less of a priority when BoS is perfectly adequate for higher M+ and fantastic in the raid.
FDK is only in dire need of an âupdateâ if youâre an Arthas larper who wants to run around using a 2h instead of playing Frost how itâs current design intends it to be played.
Every fdk has said it needed rework during beta. Hell there was several videos made with max discussing the issue during the beta. They both need rework sure, ret got several good changes since release. Frost hasnât. My argument is that performance wise fdk is in a worse position and the data backs up my claims.
4 Likes
In M+ only. FDK is objectively massively ahead in the raid, and thatâs generally the only metric that matters.
Since you think raid is the only metric that matters. Frost is only doing better 3 out of 8 fights. Reason it does better on raz is they fill the role of add cleaver while not losing much st. So again logs show unholy is performing overall better.
Itâs not âwhat I thinkâ itâs a fact. Blizzard doesnât tune/design classes for M+ and PvP has templates to tune everything separately.
Except this isnât about Unholy vs Frost, itâs about Frost vs Ret, which, again, Frost is objectively better in the Raid than. The fact FDKs can flex to Unholy and be good at all stages of the raid and Ret canât just further points to FDK not being the priority of the 2 that needs a rework.
I was just about to point that out.
Same argument can be used that no reason to bring ret since other 2 specs are stronger. Ret is doing more dps on the logs than DK but DK brings better utility. Like death advance is amazing this raid.
Around and around you people seem to go but got nothing to back yourselves.
Really? Because out of the 8 bosses in the raid, only 3 of them is Ret doing better than Frost in Mythic difficulty.
24 FDK Mythic Ras kills, 0 Unholy, 1 Ret. But sure, FDK is in dire need of a rework over Ret, a class that has 1 DPS option so the players are forced to play it to DPS in content compared to FDKs that can flex to one of, if not the best, ST DPS specs.