I mean you’re the one defending a convoluted system that even blizzard admits is overly complicated and a detriment to casuals enjoying the game.
I prefer passives but adding procs is not as good. Still better than button bloat active use stuff.
Tanks are a special case because Blizzard decided they don’t want you to just AFK and be tanky enough to survive anything without actually doing anything. The reason your mitigation effects don’t have 100% uptime without pressing your buttons is so you have to press buttons.
The answers to your questions are self evident. Why does Keg Smash reduce the cooldown of brews? To give you an incentive to use Keg Smash, then use brews. It’s that simple. Literally the only way to make it simpler is to lock off any other buttons you could possibly press than the next one in the rotation that you just empowered, which is exactly what the OBR does.
There are certain abilities you’re always going to use on cooldown, and there are a handful of other abilities that you’re going to press based on a system of priority working around that. The basic rotation for brewmaster, not including cooldowns, is that you’re always going to press Blackout Kick on cooldown, then Keg Smash because it reduces the cooldown of Breath of Fire, then Breath of Fire, and then you’re going to fill in the rest with Rising Sun Kick > Rushing Jade Wind > Tiger Palm (or Spinning Crane Kick for AOE) in that order of priority as they’re available. That’s it. You press 3 buttons in a constant rotation, spend another GCD on the next best ability you have available, then start over again.
If you are to be using every GCD on one of your core offensive abilities, there’s no other way it could work. The reason you’re incentivized to press one ability after affecting it with another ability is so you don’t just spam one ability over and over again, because that would be mindless and boring.
Blizzard never admitted any of this, and I’m defending a system that retains some interesting interactions that happen when you press your buttons in a certain order. What Blizzard did admit to is that the easiest way to learn how to not be a waste of a spot is using guides and addons, which is what they are trying to fix - the reliance on 3rd party resources.
And what are the “casuals”? I play WoW casually, I log in maybe 2-3 times a week and don’t spend more than 3 hours in game per sitting, raiding and doing M+ with my statics. Which by the most common definition makes me and the people I play with casuals, yet we have 0 issues figuring the talents out.
Even if Blizzard dumbed everything down to accomodate idiots like you, players who do research would still outperform you just because they put the extra work in. It’s already the case with the rotation highlights and single-button assistant, it’s already the case in whichever flavor of Classic you might pick. The players that prepare, experiment and practice will always be better at pressing the correct buttons than lazy idiots who don’t want to do any of that.
Exactly this.
Patch notes aren’t difficult to understand; they name the exact ability they’re changing and then the percentage it’s being buffed or nerfed by. For example, here are the Unholy DK changes for Undermine(d), aka 11.1:
- Unholy
- All ability and pet damage increased by 5%.
- Soul Reaper damage increased by 35%.
- Clawing Shadows damage increased by 15%. Does not affect Vampiric Strike.
- Scourge Strike damage increased by 15%. Does not affect Vampiric Strike.
- Gargoyle Strike damage increased by 50%.
- Apocalypse ghoul damage increased by 25%.
- Magus of the Dead damage increased by 55%.
- Doomed Bidding now summons a Magus of the Dead for 6 seconds (was 8 seconds).
- Commander of the Dead now increases the damage of Gargoyle and Army of the Dead by 45% (was 35%).
- Apocalypse and Raise Dead now summon ghouls instantly and visuals have been updated.
- Veteran of the Third War now increases Stamina by 12% (was 20%), and 6% in PvP combat (was 10%).
- Null Magic now reduces the magical damage you take by 5% (was 8%), and 3% in PvP combat (was 4%).
- Permafrost now generates an absorb shield at 30% of your auto attack damage (was 40%).
- Rider of the Apocalypse
- All Horsemen damage increased by 10%. Does not include Undeath and Trollbane’s Icy Fury.
Patch notes are nothing like what Forrtress is talking about.
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I wouldn’t bother getting into a debate with that talking rock.
It is not worth it in the slightest. They cannot accept that they are wrong about anything. You’ll be smashing your fists against a brick wall for no gain whatsoever.
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The reason your mitigation effects don’t have 100% uptime without pressing your buttons is so you have to press buttons .
I guess all my baseline defensive cooldowns are invisible to blizzard.
To give you an incentive to use Keg Smash, then use brews.
Well no, you got it reversed. It reduces their CD, it doesn’t empower them…either way it was a rhetorical question.
The point is that every ability has unnecessary additional effects.
I understand that a line of text that says “reduces CD of brews” is meant to reduce the CD of your brews…I just don’t understand why that line of text is there in the first place.
Really the only 2 additional effects Keg Smash needs is the slow, and the empowerment to your Breath of Fire…although even the later is debatable.
One button has zero to do with talent trees.
Obr exists for people who have issues with their hands
Simplifying the trees is a can of worms I DO NOT WANT OPEN again, when this happened it felt like a huge nerf to everything on all classes. Be careful what you wish for…
Your defensive CDs serve a different purpose than your active mitigation. If Blizzard made one of your Defensive CDs into something you were meant to keep 100% uptime on for your tankiness, then it would just be your active mitigation.
How else is Blizzard supposed to give you incentive to press different buttons instead of just spamming whichever attack is the most effective? If that is their goal, doesn’t that make the additional effects necessary?
We’ve already been through this part, to give you incentive to use both abilities and to inform you that they have an interaction.
If Blizzard intends for you to be spending 2 globals out of your rotation pressing Keg Smash and then pressing Breath of Fire, is it debatable that the additional effect is necessary?
What’s the alternative? Just spam random buttons? Just spam one button? Because that’s how the game would work without these kinds of interactions between abilities.
You are vastly overstating your case by saying that interactions between abilities are too convoluted in principle.
If people don’t want to read how their abilities and passives work, they’re not RPG gamers and the game should not be designed for them.
If they like the class fantasy but don’t like how the rotation plays, that’s a reason for more choice in the talent tree. For example, I’d like to play fire mage without having to deal with hot streak.
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I mean… there’s only so many keys on a keyboard. If you want buttons to press, play an Arms Warrior
Your defensive CDs serve a different purpose than your active mitigation
And what purpose does active mitigation (such as shuffle) serve exactly?
Its not like players are using it reactively. Its just kind of there.
How else is Blizzard supposed to give you incentive to press different buttons
By having the buttons do different things.
Like brews serve a clear purpose. Which is to help mitigate damage, or heal off damage, or other stuff like that.
They dont need to have an interaction. Unless you want defensive cooldowns to be part of the players dps rotation which (they are) is horrible.
If Blizzard intends for you to be spending 2 globals out of your rotation pressing Keg Smash and then pressing Breath of Fire
The fact that keg smash generates more aggro already makes it priority 1 in the rotation. And also wanta to be on CD because its your spammable damage source.
Although in cases where aggro didnt matter then it might make more sense to open with breath of fire to maximize DoT uptime. And we dont want people opening breath of fire.
So thats what I mean by debatable.
Depth in the talent tree, simplicity in the gameplay.
Historically that’s how the game’s classes were designed. We have talent tree depth, but the gameplay right now is so stupid and needlessly complicated the corporation felt it was necessary to add a 1 button spam ability to the game.
Y’know, instead of just pruning the overabundance of abilities.
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Why do you go on the internet and lie?
Max - I think this game, especially new players getting into it, it can be- there’s a lot going on within a particular class and you can be a little lost trying to figure out exactly what I should be pressing so even just using at as a guide to start learning your class and move off of it eventually.
Ion - That’s really EXACTLY our motivation on our end.
Ion - "it’s there for people who honestly just aren’t interested in the gameplay of mastering their spec.”
Ion literally says in the interview its for new players, people playing alts, and people who dont want to master their class.
You know what he didnt mention? People with disabilities.
when this happened it felt like a huge nerf to everything on all classes.
Class design in WoD felt better than it does in TWW. Ill say it.
The fact that blizzard cant combat power creep because a tiny minority of power gamers cry whenever they get nerfed is one of the things ruining the game.
I don’t know if you’re even reading my comments to you because you keep ignoring and glossing over things and asking questions that have already been addressed.
You’re not supposed to use it reactively, it’s just supposed to be something you maintain as part of your rotation in order to make sure you’re awake. Your defensive CDs are what you use reactively or proactively to mitigate sudden spikes in damage on top of that.
If tanks didn’t have active mitigation they could just stand there and be tanky without doing anything at all, and the current design is intended to be more engaging and interactive.
Ok, but then you’re still going to be spamming one button for each situation. AOE pull? Spam Spinning Crane Kick.
The thing is that even if you just press all of your abilities on CD, you’re still going to get somewhere close to a decent rotation because that’s just how specs are designed. It’s just that additional effects are there to make that feel more engaging and reward the player for managing their resources and casts well.
Again, defensive cooldowns and active mitigation are different. Active mitigation is part of most tanks’ DPS rotation because it makes sure you’re at least pressing buttons in order to tank. Like you said before, it’s just there. That’s exactly what it’s meant to be. The only purpose of it is so that you have to be actively playing the game in order to live things and that’s not an inherently bad design choice.
Blackout Kick is actually your priority number 1 in your rotation. The question remains how else is Blizzard supposed to incentivize you pressing different buttons? If you put everything on a cooldown such that Blackout Kick, Keg Smash and Breath of Fire just happened to line up so that you would always be available in that order, guess what that’s the same thing. Same rotation, same actual level of complexity, same desired effect. Except you wouldn’t even have the agency to choose to press something else because you’d just be pressing each button as it came off CD.
Want to start off with Breath of Fire because you want more DoT uptime? Go ahead. It’s ultimately going to make a minor difference, but you can do it. Then you can press Keg Smash and reset Breath of Fire so you can go back into your actual rotation. Because these effects are there for the sole purpose of making it easier and more rewarding to press your rotation and use your abilities.
I don’t think you’re really thinking through what it would mean to take away things like procs and ability interactions and how much worse it would actually feel.
I haven’t lied.
Name one thing I have lied about?
Now I know you’re trolling and can’t be taken seriously.
No one seriously thinks the games worst expansion was peak gameplay.
I don’t know if you’re even reading my comments
Well you said its so tanks dont have full mitigation when afk…but why?
Its not like tanks were ever going afk in fights.
There were times maybe when tanks would forgo dps to focus on keeping aggro and position mobs. But thats the opposite of the player “being asleep”.
that’s not an inherently bad design choice.
I would actually argue thats using offensive cds to take less damage, and usinf defensive cds to do more damage is bad design.
It makes the game less reactive, more rehearsed, like a piano recital.
Ok, but then you’re still going to be spamming one button for each situation. AOE pull? Spam Spinning Crane Kick.
Monks had a baseline passive where they do stacking percentile damage after using a uniwue ability. Spamming abilities would result in a dps lose.
Or you could just give spinning crane kick a CD. Lets be honest spamming that thing has always been lame anyway.
Breath of fire used to have no CD and they gave it one.
Blackout Kick is actually your priority number 1 in your rotation.
Big Ew. Blackout kick used to be a filler move to spend chi while BoF was on cd.
I don’t think you’re really thinking through what it would mean to take away things like procs and ability interactions and how much worse it would actually feel.
Like I said Keg Smash used to not reduce the cd of brews and the rotation functioned exactly the same. Its just needless bloat. Its fluff. And fluff should be cut to simplify classes and abilities.
I want Keg Smash to do BIG DAMAGE.
I wanna press keg smash and go uuuhhhhyeaaa.
Bit of an aside. But tanks have too much of their power indexed into damage mitigation. (Dont even get me started on healers. I am a big “healers should do damage” guy.)
Just because someone wants to play a Brewmaster or a sword and board warrior doesnt mean they want half of their talents and abilities to be about mitigating damage.
It makes tanks feel bad in solo play and PvP.
Which I think is one of the main reasons tanking is unpopular. Because blizzard shines a neon light that says “this class is designed for group PvE content and nothing else”.
Tanking in cataclysm is on the same level of playing a dps that can stand in fire. And gets hit by things.