If you are asking for class balances, you're wrong and stupid. GO play a moba or FPS game where balance actually matters, not Vanilla
They didn't nail the class fantasy for Paladin I can't even call it a cleric either because even clerics wear heavy armour.
Not asking for changes, but lets not kid ourselves the paladin in Vanilla WoW is far from what the actual class fantasy for a paladin is. I have yet to see a game besides DnD (obviously since they created it) that can capture the main aspect of a paladin and that is heavy restrictions based on your code. In WoW it's artificial because you're not able to fall which pretty much means you don't have a code you just do whatever.
Not asking for changes, but lets not kid ourselves the paladin in Vanilla WoW is far from what the actual class fantasy for a paladin is. I have yet to see a game besides DnD (obviously since they created it) that can capture the main aspect of a paladin and that is heavy restrictions based on your code. In WoW it's artificial because you're not able to fall which pretty much means you don't have a code you just do whatever.
10/31/2018 06:15 PMPosted by AvarondThey didn't nail the class fantasy for Paladin I can't even call it a cleric either because even clerics wear heavy armour.
Not asking for changes, but lets not kid ourselves the paladin in Vanilla WoW is far from what the actual class fantasy for a paladin is. I have yet to see a game besides DnD (obviously since they created it) that can capture the main aspect of a paladin and that is heavy restrictions based on your code. In WoW it's artificial because you're not able to fall which pretty much means you don't have a code you just do whatever.
Wow Paladins are there own thing, separate from DnD.
Also note that each spec has it's own class fantasy, if you want a tank who bubbles and can heal now and then... Then play that.. but nooo your talking about raids, because that's going to be what 95% of the population will be doing.. lol that was a joke.
10/31/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Sharlivee10/31/2018 06:15 PMPosted by AvarondThey didn't nail the class fantasy for Paladin I can't even call it a cleric either because even clerics wear heavy armour.
Not asking for changes, but lets not kid ourselves the paladin in Vanilla WoW is far from what the actual class fantasy for a paladin is. I have yet to see a game besides DnD (obviously since they created it) that can capture the main aspect of a paladin and that is heavy restrictions based on your code. In WoW it's artificial because you're not able to fall which pretty much means you don't have a code you just do whatever.
Wow Paladins are there own thing, separate from DnD.
Also note that each spec has it's own class fantasy, if you want a tank who bubbles and can heal now and then... Then play that.. but nooo your talking about raids, because that's going to be what 95% of the population will be doing.. lol that was a joke.
Did you just read the first part because that's just an example I can list other things like paladins wearing leather. WoW paladins aren't really that separate because they took the name and just changed it to try and make it fit into an mmo. The biggest thing about the paladin like I said isn't actually if they're tanking or doing DPS it's about the code. WoW paladin doesn't have a code they can't fall and lose their powers as a paladin following this code and upholding it is the biggest part of being a paladin.
No code no paladin that's why your paladins are whiners they're playing the paladin on easy mode.
Paladins have like zero of their class fantasy from Warcraft. in Warcraft they were WARRIORS of light SUPREME lords of war. going into battle headfirst with a mighty meaty two handed weapon going toe to toe with the greatest WARRIORS EVER KNOWN not some weak !@# random footman or grunt guy 123, BUT LIVING LEGENDS.
BLACKHAND
DOOM HAMMER
HELLSCREAM
VAROK SARLFANG
BROXXAGAR THE RED
These names fought with PALADINS
Paladins fought these legends and survived, sure they did not kill their foes in battle but they SURVIVED and fought toe to toe.
In WoW what do paladins do? sit in the back buffing warriors every 5 minutes and watch videoes on the internet inbetween. Dark times ahead.
BLACKHAND
DOOM HAMMER
HELLSCREAM
VAROK SARLFANG
BROXXAGAR THE RED
These names fought with PALADINS
Paladins fought these legends and survived, sure they did not kill their foes in battle but they SURVIVED and fought toe to toe.
In WoW what do paladins do? sit in the back buffing warriors every 5 minutes and watch videoes on the internet inbetween. Dark times ahead.
10/31/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Avarond10/31/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Sharlivee...
Wow Paladins are there own thing, separate from DnD.
Also note that each spec has it's own class fantasy, if you want a tank who bubbles and can heal now and then... Then play that.. but nooo your talking about raids, because that's going to be what 95% of the population will be doing.. lol that was a joke.
Did you just read the first part because that's just an example I can list other things like paladins wearing leather. WoW paladins aren't really that separate because they took the name and just changed it to try and make it fit into an mmo. The biggest thing about the paladin like I said isn't actually if they're tanking or doing DPS it's about the code. WoW paladin doesn't have a code they can't fall and lose their powers as a paladin following this code and upholding it is the biggest part of being a paladin.
No code no paladin that's why your paladins are whiners they're playing the paladin on easy mode.
I only slay goblins. thats my code. Greed shall be eliminated from this realm. All whom fall into sin shall be purged from these lands. By god I stall strike them down and free the world of the evil that is Green.
:P
In raids, they were mostly relegated to healing and support. In literally every other aspect of vanilla, they could choose any spec they wanted and be kickass holy warriors. It's always about raids with you guys.10/31/2018 07:36 PMPosted by KoresPaladins have like zero of their class fantasy from Warcraft. in Warcraft they were WARRIORS of light SUPREME lords of war. going into battle headfirst with a mighty meaty two handed weapon going toe to toe with the greatest WARRIORS EVER KNOWN not some weak !@# random footman or grunt guy 123, BUT LIVING LEGENDS.
BLACKHAND
DOOM HAMMER
HELLSCREAM
VAROK SARLFANG
BROXXAGAR THE RED
These names fought with PALADINS
Paladins fought these legends and survived, sure they did not kill their foes in battle but they SURVIVED and fought toe to toe.
In WoW what do paladins do? sit in the back buffing warriors every 5 minutes and watch videoes on the internet inbetween. Dark times ahead.
10/31/2018 06:15 PMPosted by AvarondThey didn't nail the class fantasy for Paladin I can't even call it a cleric either because even clerics wear heavy armour.
Not asking for changes, but lets not kid ourselves the paladin in Vanilla WoW is far from what the actual class fantasy for a paladin is. I have yet to see a game besides DnD (obviously since they created it) that can capture the main aspect of a paladin and that is heavy restrictions based on your code. In WoW it's artificial because you're not able to fall which pretty much means you don't have a code you just do whatever.
I get your point.
But for me it does in general. I feel like a paladin is like a holy knight in the more realistic* terms mixed with the effects etc. You were favored by the light and with it your basic melee abilities were blessed. You could then bless other players giving them a blessing of the light. You were meant to be dauntless, heavily armed and strike hard! But at the same time you were not some blade master who honed their skills the entirety of their time but a knight who spent their time in prayer.
I don't know I feel like it did in a way. But the goal they set made the class overall very bland in many ways. Current WoW class goals with the way lore runs and everything gives them much more power as a true holy knight rather than a knight blessed by the light. (Not saying current wow achieves said goals)
Edit:
realistic* Using that to describe less unrealistic. Like not so much flashy etc.
10/31/2018 07:36 PMPosted by KoresIn WoW what do paladins do? sit in the back buffing warriors every 5 minutes and watch videoes on the internet inbetween. Dark times ahead.
And that's where it falls apart. Playing solo game leveling etc it goes well. But raid wise yes the class does not hold up to it's lore role.
10/31/2018 07:42 PMPosted by SwitzyIn raids, they were mostly relegated to healing and support. In literally every other aspect of vanilla, they could choose any spec they wanted and be kickass holy warriors. It's always about raids with you guys.10/31/2018 07:36 PMPosted by KoresPaladins have like zero of their class fantasy from Warcraft. in Warcraft they were WARRIORS of light SUPREME lords of war. going into battle headfirst with a mighty meaty two handed weapon going toe to toe with the greatest WARRIORS EVER KNOWN not some weak !@# random footman or grunt guy 123, BUT LIVING LEGENDS.
BLACKHAND
DOOM HAMMER
HELLSCREAM
VAROK SARLFANG
BROXXAGAR THE RED
These names fought with PALADINS
Paladins fought these legends and survived, sure they did not kill their foes in battle but they SURVIVED and fought toe to toe.
In WoW what do paladins do? sit in the back buffing warriors every 5 minutes and watch videoes on the internet inbetween. Dark times ahead.
exactly, being ignorant is not a good vanilla trait
10/31/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Smorkexactly, being ignorant is not a good vanilla trait
Yep.
And I actually do plan to try and become a prot paladin offtank for raiding!
Class balance is important. How many new players rolled a new toon in an old school mmo, only to find out you will have a very hard time getting in groups, or even leveling, based solely on your class choice.
Class balance and class fantasy are not mutually exclusive.
10/31/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Avarond10/31/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Sharlivee...
Wow Paladins are there own thing, separate from DnD.
Also note that each spec has it's own class fantasy, if you want a tank who bubbles and can heal now and then... Then play that.. but nooo your talking about raids, because that's going to be what 95% of the population will be doing.. lol that was a joke.
Did you just read the first part because that's just an example I can list other things like paladins wearing leather. WoW paladins aren't really that separate because they took the name and just changed it to try and make it fit into an mmo. The biggest thing about the paladin like I said isn't actually if they're tanking or doing DPS it's about the code. WoW paladin doesn't have a code they can't fall and lose their powers as a paladin following this code and upholding it is the biggest part of being a paladin.
No code no paladin that's why your paladins are whiners they're playing the paladin on easy mode.
WoW paladins are WoW paladins, D&D paladins are D&D paladins. If you're going to whine about WoW paladins not being D&D paladins, that's a you problem.
10/31/2018 08:06 PMPosted by ZiryusClass balance and class fantasy are not mutually exclusive.
We have 14 years worth of trying that says otherwise.
I was supposed to be a master of magic. In raids, I got there an hour beforehand to make water and argue with hunters who wanted the best water. Then hit frostbolt for four hours.10/31/2018 07:42 PMPosted by SwitzyIn raids, they were mostly relegated to healing and support. In literally every other aspect of vanilla, they could choose any spec they wanted and be kickass holy warriors. It's always about raids with you guys.10/31/2018 07:36 PMPosted by KoresPaladins have like zero of their class fantasy from Warcraft. in Warcraft they were WARRIORS of light SUPREME lords of war. going into battle headfirst with a mighty meaty two handed weapon going toe to toe with the greatest WARRIORS EVER KNOWN not some weak !@# random footman or grunt guy 123, BUT LIVING LEGENDS.
BLACKHAND
DOOM HAMMER
HELLSCREAM
VAROK SARLFANG
BROXXAGAR THE RED
These names fought with PALADINS
Paladins fought these legends and survived, sure they did not kill their foes in battle but they SURVIVED and fought toe to toe.
In WoW what do paladins do? sit in the back buffing warriors every 5 minutes and watch videoes on the internet inbetween. Dark times ahead.
10/31/2018 08:32 PMPosted by Lôrdgrimargue with hunters who wanted the best water.
lol'd.
And again i love all the people talking about specs when it comes to class balance.
Classes were balanced in vanilla. All classes could be good in all aspects of the game. Not all specs are good at all aspects.
For those of you that want spec balance. Live is there for you. Stop trying to change classic.
Classes were balanced in vanilla. All classes could be good in all aspects of the game. Not all specs are good at all aspects.
For those of you that want spec balance. Live is there for you. Stop trying to change classic.
10/31/2018 08:36 PMPosted by MatcauthonLive is there for you. Stop trying to change classic.
Yep.
People do not realize that current WoW is trying to deal with specs as if they are their very own classes. A current Prot Pally has near nothing in relation to a Holy or a Ret Pally.
In vanilla specs were just that. Specializations. You were a Paladin first who happened to specialize in Protection second.
10/31/2018 08:32 PMPosted by Matcauthon10/31/2018 08:06 PMPosted by ZiryusClass balance and class fantasy are not mutually exclusive.
We have 14 years worth of trying that says otherwise.
No we don't, just like vanilla we have multiple classes crammed into too few roles and at the same time we have classes with unique abilities.
So balance has improved as we have more viable classes crammed into the same roles but we still have unique abilities.
If you can't tell classes apart in retail that's a problem with you not with the game.