It really shows where the game is at currently and sadly! We can’t have feedback really because people cannot stop fighting about certain talents that unfortunately the devs only seem to double down on and the toxicity continues to grow. With talents such as momentum and essence break (just to name a few) causing so many toxic debates and heated arguments, I do not understand why they just don’t remove them and move on. No matter what is done, as long as they both continue to be in the game, our feedback threads will constantly be derailed and I get it, I personally hate momentum, and I wish there was a way to make it not so toxic but having movement tied to dps is always going to be controversial, so why not juse remove it and remove the negativity? And I know a few will come here and tell me how bad I am, and I just need to “get good”, and honestly idc, the playstyle is very toxic and the numbers are already dwindling at an alarming rate, we do not need anything else to push anymore ppl away! Anyways, everyone have an awesome day, and I will say MANY of the changes are great and moving in the right directions, but the things holding DH back are still very prevalent!
I mean, from a historical point of view, demon hunter mains have been the most toxic people since the class was released. They will shoot themselves in the foot, cuss out who ever was closest, then cry on the forums for an unjust ban and how they are angels.
you know with current numbers a no movement build is only 1-2% behind in early experimental sims.
This is the opposite of my experience. My DH bros are just vibing, and everyone else is toxic towards us.
DH = toxicity magnet
thats alot when they are 2nd from the bottom in raid to begin with and in practice its alot more. when you debate if its worth even bringing 1 or not just for the debuff or to ban the class entirely from progression raiding, that in practice 5% or more can be the difference between you or another dh getting that coveted “I am just here for a 5% magic debuff” spot
Made a TLDR for ya.
People argue about Momentum and Essence break. I am on the side that dislikes them. So remove them. Me and my feelings are all that matter. If you do not agree with me, you are toxic.
most people dislike them besides a fringe small subset, times momentum is is not required we don’t complain, when we have a 10 button spec because of bloat and have to lose dps delaying it between 100 waves of fire on rashok, then we complain
in our time of playing the class we went from bursty durable you are welcome even if you are melee, to mid viable atleast its casual friendly to play, to one of the worst specs to minmax on the high end 2nd from the bottom all risk no reward
momentum and resetting first blood + felblade and other things = massive button bloat
between trying to play properly and not take damage you ignore in lower modes you are constantly watching 10 short cds, your demonic fury bar to try not to overcap too much, fit things into small windows, your only movement options are lines where slight lag can mess them up and you must sacrofice them most of the time and put yourself in sketchy positions and still see yourself in 11th place in full 447 bis
first of all that debuff is why dh will always have a raid spot, theres no debating whether or not you should bring the debuff, 5% extra magic dam for every spec that uses magic (which is everything cept warrior) is really really good. also who cares about live? ptr is the topic and thus why its being said, ptr no mover seems to be 2% behind, whether or not you classify t hat 2% as something worth killing your enjoyment over the game is up to you. even tho 2% can be made up by skill and sims are nearly impossible to touch realistically with momentum due to momentum oversimming. so in reality no mover is probably stronger
this is subjective, the majoriy of havoc players dont care, while both momentum likers and dislikers are somewhat even in population. one is just loud on the forums
havoc is as casual friendly as every other spec in the game, stop paying attention to momentum if your a casual. also btw atoc isnt casual 15+ keys isnt casual. the grim truth is that semi casual or semi hardcore. only 1% of the playerbase gets atoc and .1% gets cutting edge
they said the same thing for last patch but ok lets do this all over again “no mover is not very far behind” and have been a bad spot for over a year, guess we can keep saying “its fine”
before was told I don’t play the spec well enough to judge its spot (full purples in heroic and lots of mythic kills still not “experienced” enough I guess, like you said alot of players don’t even push to atoc they say its “fine” with mechanics they can just out heal)
They can’t remove it because of trolls that come here and play Dh around +16 keys max and HC raid only that have ‘‘fun’’ with the build but never main DH at all and have other classes as mains to do higher keys on, so they take their feedback as something serious and double down on this trash playstyle because its their ‘‘vision’’ of DH, not what big chunk of real DH mains want.
Simple solution is to split momentum into different spec and there you go, perfect solution to everything, it would fix big talent bloat and no conclusive clear playstyle and all this debates, but Blizz is just too lazy to even look at Dh after their part of game narrative has been done. Another issue is they have a guy who is mainly focused on Rouge rework fix Dh now at all times??? Dude is much more invested in Rouge atm why dump Dh on him now as well what good will come out of it? Just dedicate specific patch to us.
Class being designed around 2 specs and being this out of tuning and reliant on borrowed powers for most of its existence only confirms we were assembled on fly with no thought of future upkeep, big spit in the face is Evoker received 3rd spec out of blue and we don’t have that luxury, don’t let trolls and fools on here tell u ( o but they fixed evoker previous 2 specs before giving it a 3rd, o but why you want another DH spec when our existing specs are a mess). Bro if they could fix whole class that just released in 6 months and give it 3rd spec that ‘‘BROKE’’ the game and made it so hard to balance now around diff comps, they couldn’t do that with DH after 7 years of feedback? Get real
It seems to me that the toxicity skyrocketed when the Devs began to overcomplicate the DH in Sl.
Before that there were requests to make the momentum more viable and the gameplay more “rewarding” and there would not be much complaint about it, in fact it was supported, now on the other hand we are too far on the other side and many of the advocates of “rewarding” gameplay mock and belittling those who want a return to a middle ground which led to both groups becoming more and more violent/toxic.
At this point I think the only real solution is to give the DH a 3rd spec to satisfy each group. I don’t think that in a single talent tree the overly complicated playstyle that exists now can coexist with the simpler playstyle of DH that the rest of us are asking to return.
Not to mention that the DH is more similar to the warrior than the rogue, the only thing it shares with the rogue is the armor category.
The thing is, I don’t want my class to be toxic, I would love to be able to have civil conversations and working towards positive change, but the forums are just a mirror of our society, and that is, if you don’t agree with me, you are my enemy and I must destroy you! It’s really sad and not to derail the convo by any means, I just wish we could all have adult discussions and actually try to make the class fun. I know not everyone can have exactly what they want, but there has to be a good middle ground for different playstyles! I would love to have a DH spec that I wasn’t spamming my attacks as fast as possible sometimes, our APM is pretty dang high! And we are the only class that has so much of our dps tied to our utility and it just sucks! ANYTIME a utility button has any type of dmg associated with it, it will almost always be mandatory for doing the best dps!
True, but that is not limited to DHs and not to the WoW forum, it is the same on Twitter for example, it is a bigger issue.
Part of the solution is for Blizzard to put appropriate moderators on the forums and actively moderate the topics. In the class Discords I am sure that the moderation is more active. That said, these channels are private and unofficial, and the rules, moderation, control, etc. are not in the hands of Blizzard and are vulnerable to the interests that those who manage them may have, so I do not consider them reliable.
If we compare all this with FF14 the difference is enormous, there is toxicity, but not like in WoW and they actively reinforce and enforce the regulations. At the end of the day the toxicity in the forums and the game is a reflection of Blizzard’s interest in its community.
Imagine a country without the organizations to enforce compliance of the laws.
except it wasnt far behind and multiple people in top mythic raid logs were using no movers
well the posts saying make it into 2 specs we might face the same issue if momentum becomes required/both are near the bottom but might be easier to ask for work and buffs if they only need to focus on one at a time maybe like they do with others
would be nice to see something like
midranged spec (can be up to 15-20 yards away without dps loss): includes momentum, [Initiative] (don’t have to be in melee to activate), more glaive stuff, eyebeem slightly longer reach. still counts as melee but kind of gets more positional freedom like evoker
melee (purest): no momentum/veng tuning for energy or damage upkeep at all (besides maybe rush on 3+ target) so you have fel rush and veng retreat for movement at any time. essence break window style applys but without trying to be in a momentum upkeep at the same time to maximize, tuned slightly higher since other spec is less punishing and will not lose dps being off the boss at times
the deal with mechanic spacer “fun” spec
the I am a blender and you will fear me spec
also wondering how magical it would be to have 2 charges of eyebeem so you are not sitting on it wasting it as much to line up with essense break, have a better chance to reserve one for aoe situations or fury low points, decide to go ahead and pop it off at 1.6 since you know another charge is coming soon anyways etc. feels like that should be baseline for both just baked in at this point. that alone might push us just under middle of the pack the spec might be so low because how rng/clunky it is
The toxicity is in every class forum. Nothing new.
big truth right there
I remember in BFA every single DH i invited to pug from rag would always grief the run or do something stupid. I had to actually stop inviting people from rag because it just happened too much