In that case it shouldn’t be any issue having cd’s up this time either tbh. I haven’t checked the exact timers, but blizzard even stated themselves that they reduced the amount of tankbusters and increased time in between them for S2.
I think this is the main reason that you didn’t feel the same pressure for defensives as I did. These abilities weren’t dangerous enough to require cd’s before 12s, as 12s scaled much harder than it does this season. I’m also going on a whim and guessing you mostly remember how it felt by the end of the season, rather than the beginning. In the end we were all vastly overgeared for 10s after all, and they should be compared to doing 10s in 670+ ilvl this season.
I’m guessing you feel this way because you recently did the S2 content overgeared, and S1 content in proper gear. If we were to give them a righteous comparison you’d have to compare doing s1 10s in week 1/2 with 610 ilvl, compared to S2 10s in 645 ilvl.
I haven’t checked the exact timers either, but regardless of what they’ve said, the boss tankbusters feel to me as, or more, frequent.
They definitely required cds while I was progressing. I don’t know if I would have survived once I was fully geared, but I know I didn’t at the beginning of the season.
Not so much. My memory is more on learning to do it correctly and the consequences for failure. By the end of the season, I just hit all the cds when I had learned I needed them. I may not have needed them once I was fully mythic geared, but I wasn’t interested in finding out. I just wanted quick, easy completions.
I timed my first 10s in s2 ranging from 652 to 657. I timed my first 10s in s1 from 620-625.
I believe that is pretty consistently comparable, both groups roughly 3-4 of 6 heroic tier upgrades.
Those are ilvls for better players than me, and honestly, better than a vast majority of M+ players. Even my ilvls, 10-15 higher than yours are ahead of a lot of people. With that in mind, how are defining “proper gear”?
Yes, but just because Blizzard publicly announced a stated goal it doesn’t mean they followed through with it.
Overall, I would say there are definitely less 1-shot threats. There are still a lot of tank busters, but they don’t hit nearly as hard so they are not as much as a tank-check.
With that said, there are a few that happen as frequently, or more frequently, that also hurt more than tank busters did in S1.
First boss of Priory - Bleed effect is on almost the entire fight with virtually no downtime unless you have a way to clear bleeds/immune. The bleed hits harder and is worse than the first boss of Grim Batol by far.
The Peacekeepers in Motherlode isn’t just a tank buster, it’s a series of tank busters that hits multiple times in quick succession with a low CD. This hits harder than nearly anything else of equivalent key level including boss mechanics.
Big M.O.M.M.A. also has a fairly nasty tank buster on a short CD.
Aside from those, I would agree that the tank busters that exist hurt less or happen less frequently.
I think we have different standards for tankbusters. If they’re not hard enough for me to worry about them I just consider them a general hit. You can of course create artificial tank-checks with bigger pulls though, like pulling the first 4-5 packs in Priory.
Yes, there’s some that are worse (mini-bosses for example), and some that are less. Overall I feel like it’s considerably less, but that’s just my experience.
Yes, this boss stands out as a rough one for tanks, but it’s also an exception to the general rule in my opinion. There’s also a lot of bosses with no tankbusters at all.
I’ll agree that they are nasty for every tank but warriors, but they’re also optional. You can skip all Peacekeepers if you’d like.
True.
Yeah, I think we see eye to eye on most things.
I’m not saying that it’s easy to be a tank this season, I’m just saying it’s much easier than it was last season. I think a lot of people will find tanking less mechanically and cognitively taxing than playing a healer or a DPS this season.
It is. You had slightly better gear for the key level in S1, but not by a wide margin.
I’d say an ilvl that’s a little less than what the key rewards you with. Since a +10 drops 655 gear I think that entering it with 645-650 is quite appropiate. I’m not saying that being 650-660 is overgearing, but once we reach 665+ we’re definitely overgeared for 10s.
I think it’s noticeably easier, but not enormously so. And I think, as someone who is obviously proficient at tanking, it’s easy to project that ability on to others. But I don’t believe most dps players would find it at all easier to transition to a tank. I believe dps remains the easiest role by miles, with the understanding that exceptional players are exceptional players in whatever role they choose.
True, it’s not unlikely that I just have a skewed perspective on tanking. I’ve just noticed that there’s more mechanics to deal with (in boss fights) as a healer or DPS this season. Based on that and the fact that a tanks rotation is much simpler than that of a DPS, it feels like DPS could fairly be considered harder. Then again, we have the fact that there’s many to pick up your slack as a DPS. If you die within the first five seconds of an encounter, the rest of the group can still finish it without you. The same does not go for tanks.
Not true about rotation or role as being easier. For rotation, depends on the dps spec and depends on the tank spec. Guardian Druid easy rotation, Ret Paladin again easy, like 2 main buttons with 3 others thrown in every now and then.
…Rotation is just a very tiny part of the equation, For every second of a dungeon we have to deal with route and readjust if needed, monitor healer capability, cooldowns, and mana, monitor dps capability and cooldowns, pull packs based on healer capability and cooldowns, manage snap aggro, monitor timer against benchmarks, monitor dps and healer positioning, manage pack and boss positioning now, immediately, and in 30 seconds, monitor patrols, reposition packs and bosses as needed, manage our defensive AND offensive rotation with defensive being the most difficult, know every mob and boss ability and what they do to us, dps, and the healer, manage our health and self-heals, manage our internal resource (chi, holy power, etc.) and what we can and can’t cast at a given time (like a prot pally prolly can’t rez you when you are shouting at them bc they have to build holy power up to cast it and have to make sure they are safe doing it), interrupt and stun and monitor for who has interrupts/stuns available, manage white damage by kiting or stutter-stepping, and there are others I’m sure I’m missing… all while communicating to the group.
What you think you are seeing in tanking is 1% of what we’re doing. Try it, build up to 10 keys and come back and talk to us.
… and prot warrior is easy, VDH is easy. That leaves us with what, BDK and Brew that might not be easy? Tanks generally have less interactive abilities than DPS has, a DPS rotation is more complex than tanks. One may say that we must maintain active mitigation too, but DPS also have to maintain an active offense, so it evens out. For every threatening tank mechanic there’s also a threatening mechanic for DPS/healers, so that also evens out.
Christ mate, you ought to put some dots in that sentence.
As you say the complexity in tanks mostly lies in routing, pacing, and knowing which mobs might pose a threat this season. That’s things that DPS don’t have to deal with of course, but they do need to know abilities of mobs and bosses to counterplay those. Some may not do that, but just like a tank not counterplaying, that’s a sign of a bad DPS. DPS and healer also have to help out with interrupts and cc, and adapt their stops accordingly. You’re not necessarily a shot-caller just because you’re tanking, and you’ll only be one in voice com groups anyway, which is a tiny % among the playerbase running keys currently at +12 and beyond.
You probably haven’t read anything else in this post, but I’ve tanked all 10s on 3 tanks so far. Currently doing 12s at 653 ilvl with warrior and it’s just fine, if anything my groups usually struggles with low DPS and people forgetting to use bloodlust.
I’m guessing it’s this one? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/silvermoon/rastashara?zone=43&metric=dps&bybracket=1
Without the intent of being condescending, but the reason you think that it seems harder on your paladin is probably because you’re not playing it well. You’ve got grey/green logs for your ilvl, with some blue in there. All your highest keys (10-11) got grey logs.
Paladin isn’t bad, but I can certainly see why VDH looks so much stronger to you.
As a tank, I’d say 15 ilevel below (up to a 10 key) is just fine. Once you’re at ilevel for the dungeon gear dropped, then I’d say you’re over gearing it. Again, up to a 10.
Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, and I agree with the 15 ilvl part. I think it’s a bit harsh to say that you’re overgearing a 10 at 655 ilvl though. I can however understand saying that 652 is overgeared for an 8 , since they just have either tyrannical or fortitfied to deal with, but never both.
I don’t know why blizz is so hesitant to nerf the timer or trash on this dungeon. I feel like one of the senior devs designed it, is super proud of the design, and puts the kibosh on any nerf talk. All they need to do is let us kill the yes men all at once or nerf their health a lot and the timer will be more manageable.
I think this and reducing their % to mob count would do wonders. I dont mind pulling another extra pack into a current pull to compensate, but the fact that those 4 are pure single target (unless you’ve got some creative taunting) slows you down unreasonably much.