If everyone died at once on that phase, it was everyone’s fault. There is no tank out of melee range wipe mechanic.
3 people died instantly so u tell me then
Actually there is one Protocol 99.
Huh, guess so. I’ve never been shortsighted enough to not be in melee range. The adventure guide doesn’t even list it and Method.gg doesn’t describe what it is.
Yeah, it almost never happens at high level but I think the tank was excited that the key was going to be timed and the entire group was going to get the portal except for me since I had it and made that critical error.
Oh, well it happens
Tanks don’t be carried. I do my job and know the dungeons. And yes I’m a bad DPS but that’s mostly cuz I don’t like trying to do my rotation with all the movement these days. It sucks
Tanks are also elevated to the single role able to solo content to a degree in a 5 man.
So you’re carried in a sense by playing the strongest role requiring the lowest performance.
You’re right maybe that playing a tank you can soak a swirlies every once in a while that would usually kill a DPS or a healer. And that’s a positive to playing tank
The comments like these are where you lose me. The metric for performance is different. The tank should always be below the dps on a damage meter, but that’s not really a comprehensive measure of performance, even for the dps players. Interrupts and stops are measurable if you look for them, avoidable damage taken is a factor, correct usage of defensive cooldowns, but then there are less tangibly quantifiable, but still important aspects of tank performance. Grouping of packs in a way that complements the groups strengths and/or weakness to maximize outgoing damage and minimize the party being overwhelmed and wiping, being aware of healer and dps cds to allow for larger pulls, and being aware of groups that are lighter on aoe stops and other ccs that might necessitate smaller pulls in places to keep the run flowing smoothly.
Tank players generally have to manage more than other players to be successful, unless you’re exclusively talking about the lowest keys where nobody has to perform well to win. Tank performance just doesn’t show up neat and tidy on a damage meter.
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DPS be like : " I want to pull faster cuz other groups I was in pulled faster "
The state of halfwits.
Last season I would have agreed that tanking is harder, this season it’s much easier though.
- There’s generally more boss mechanics that affects only DPS/healers this season, and less tankbusters.
- Tank damage is lower relative to that of the DPS than it has previously been, so they can’t compensate as much in terms of damage to speed the key up this season. This means that their damage matters less that it previously did, and that coupled with tanks simpler offensive rotation gets them off the hook a but more than previously for having sub-par damage.
- There’s less tankbusters in regular pulls, which means less mechanics during trash for tanks to deal with.
They still need to control route to clear %, but all dungeons this season is fairlt straighy foward so you can pull whatever seems natural (no fancy skips, just obvious ones), without ending up far below/above mob count. With the exception of floodgate, you’ve also got mobs closeby to adjust any missing % after killing the last boss.
Tanking truly is a much easier role this season than it was last season.
/someone who’s currently tanking 10s at 640 ilvl.
I agree tanking was harder last season, but I reject the notion that tanking is easier than dps, and especially easier to be carried than dps.
I don’t agree that there are significantly fewer tankbusters on either trash or bosses than last season, but I do think they are less lethal generally.
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I guess I’ll be backtracking on my own words here, but you are somewhat correct when you’re saying that it’s easier to be carried as a DPS. As a DPS you can be fully afk and still complete +10 keys, since the rest of the group can cover for you. As a tank that’s just not possible, so in that sense they’re more demanding.
You don’t have to agree with me, but if we’re to look at each individual boss we’ll see that it’s true. It’s a fact that there’s less of it this season, not an opinion. You can check the dungeon journal and MTD for trash abilities and then compare with last season if you’d like.
If they aren’t lethal, how can we call them tankbusters? If it doesn’t require a certain degree of mitigation (how much remains to be defined), it may even be stretched as far as saying white swings can be called tankbusters (yes I know that’s an overexaggeration).
It’s not about the number of abilities listed in the journal, although I’m not sure you’re right about that either, and if you catalog a comparison I hope you’ll post your results. From a practical sense it’s about the frequency. More often this season than last I need to be aware of using my cds in a specific order to make sure I don’t have a tankbuster land while everything is on cd, for both trash and bosses.
There were tankbusters last season that were 100-0 without using a cd, not just standard active mitigation. That is obviously highly lethal. This season, I’ve seen a lot of tankbusters that take 75-90% of health with no cd. That is a significant enough percentage of hp to warrant calling it a tankbuster imo, and clearly a problem that should be avoided. It can certainly cause a wipe level emergency if it’s not dealt with quickly afterward, but the fact that it’s survivable changes the dynamic and is easier gameplay than just one shot and dead.
I haven’t catalog anything so no can do I’m afraid, I only looked at it and compared for myself.
This is true, I haven’t really considered this. Although I find the amount of tank busters so awfully few this season so I doubt the frequency makes up for it. The only tankbusters from trash that springs to mind is “puncture” in workshop, othervise it’s mini-bosses in Priory and ToP.
Again, I just can’t recognize myself being in that situation, and I’ve tanked all 10s on 3 classes at 645ish ilvl. Sure there are some bosses that have them, but there’s a generous amount of time in between them. For example last boss in ToP, third and fourth boss in Floodgate, and last boss in rookery have a lot of time in between them.
Absolutely, I agree. I Just think they’re awfully few.
It will eventually scale to be a one-shot anyway, the question is just when that should happen. In my opinion, if a tank can take a tankbuster to the face with active mitigation (but no defensive cds) and walk away with 30% hp remaining in a 10 at 640-650 ilvl, then I believe that’s making it a bit too easy. We’ll be doing 10s at about 675 ilvl later, and I think that that should be the ilvl required to walk away relatively unscathed.
If I use a defensive along with my active mitigation on a 645 tank during a tankbuster in a 10, I’ll walk away with 75% hp remaining at worst. That just feels somewhat silly to me, given that those reward the highest tier in vault.
Peacekeepers in MOTHERLODE also, and those mini bosses definitely count. How is this so much less than last season? A few pulls with void slash in Stonevault, the guardians in Mists, and the Flamerenders and Giants in Grim Batol are all I remember vividly from s1.
This is the big one I had in mind, and our experiences are not the same. Is one of your tanks Prot Pal? The reap comes in pairs fairly close together, with a bit of separation between each pair. I can get every 3rd or 4th with Ardent Defender, Kings is only up once unless the fight drags on because of dead dps, and I have to weave eye of tyr and divine shield into the AD down times to keep coverage. There is a point if the fight goes on long enough where everything I have will be on CD. Ask me how I know…
I haven’t looked at it in close comparison, but it feels like more bosses this season have more tankbusters than last, and definitely cast them more often.
I agree with this 100%. I’m one of the few in favor of 1 shot mechanics, not just for tanks, because I think it correctly puts the onus on individual players instead of being able to dump the responsibility of fixing it on the healer.
That doesn’t bother me. I think the price of failure should be death, but I have no issue with the successfully handling the mechanic not resulting in much damage, unless it’s also meant as a healer mechanic as well, by design.
These are definitely the worst of them all, but I almost wonder if they want us to kite them and not face tank it with defensives.
Let’s see what we got in S1:
Mists of Tirna Scithe:
- Drust soulcleavers Soul Split x4.
- Mistveil Guardians Anima Slash x2-x4 (varies).
- Mistveil Nightblossom Triple Bite x1.
The Necrotic Wake:
- Stitched Vanguards & Loyal Creations Bone Claw x4.
- Solramus Bonecarvers Boneflay x5.
- Skeletal Marauders Gruesome Cleave x4 (5 if you don’t skip).
- Kyrian Stitchwerks, Goregrinds & Rotspews Mutilate x4.
Siege of Boralus:
- Riptide Shredders Singing Steel (only a tankbuster if two go off simultaneously, othervise it’s a bit weak) x4.
Stonevault:
- Cursedforge Honor Guards Stonebreaker Stride x4.
- Aspiring Forgehands Fracturing Blows (arguably not a tankbuster, but a rapidly stacking increased damage taken that can’t be dispelled so you’ll need to use defensives or kite).
- Void Bound Despoilers Shadow Claw x3.
The Dawnbreaker:
- Nightfall Commanders Tainted Slash x2.
- Ixkreten The Unbreakables Terrifying Slam x1.
Grim Batol:
- Twilight Overseers “Rive” x3-x7 depending on how good you do bombs, usually x4.
- Molten Giants Lava Fist x3 (x2 if you skip one and do double Lavabenders before third boss).
- Twilight Flamerends Shadowflame Slash x5-x7 (usually 7).
Ara-Kara, City of Echoes:
- Bloodstained Assistants Extraction Strike x5.
- Reinforced Drones Grasping Slash (not a since it does 50% of the other tankbusters damage, but since there’s usually 5+ of them I’ll enter it here. Ignore it if you don’t approve).
City of Threads:
- Sureki Conscripts Brutal Jab (does low dmg, but stacks 10% increased damage of them. Since it’s usually 5-10 of these adds I decided to account for them.)
Those are the ones I can see from S1, and that’s not accounting for any pulls that might just be generally more intense than the ones in S2.
All in all, S1 accounted for 58-63 individual tank checks (depending on how you pull). I can’t recall how many there were in S2, but as far as I remember it’s considerably less.
It is.
You can cycle:
- 100% spell block and 90% physical block (this will let you live all the time in 10s as long as healer keeps you up).
- Ardent defender.
- Divine Shield.
- Eye of Tyr + 100% block.
- Precast Lay on hands with armor buff talent + 100% spell block.
- Guardian of Ancient Kings.
- Blessing of spellwarding.
- Tank trinket from Gallywix or from Floodgate, the one from Meadery or Stix Bunkjunker is also helpful.
Prioritize using Ardent Defender, Eye of Tyr, and Divine Shield as those come back off cooldowns faster. You should be able to take at least 10-12 tankbusters without going without a CD.
I disagree, but I don’t know where to lock for the cooldown for each mobs/bosses tankbuster so I can’t disprove of it either.
As a prot warrior they’re just a free boost to your self esteem on the DPS meter, Spell reflection doing its thing!
But to keep things consistent, we’re not talking about white swings and large pulls, right? You wanted to focus on life or death tankbusters, and I definitely didn’t use a cd explicitly for all of the things you listed in s1.
Yeah, I understand the process of cycling through, and it shouldn’t really go more than 10-12, so running out is more of a bad situation where people have died and the boss fight is taking way too long I’m just saying I never had to think about sequence during s1 bosses. I could cover nearly every boss tankbuster with AD or Kings, maybe once in a while something else to cover a gap.
No, just abilities that are enough to kill a tank in keys they don’t overgear. The ones that are questionable tank-checks are commented on.
We can do that, I used what is generally considered a tankbuster in any high key. If we’re talking life or death tankbusters in s1 and s2 in 10s whilst overgeared there is no tank-busters at all in the game.
Dawnbreaker first and second boss, CoT first and second boss, Stonevault first boss, Grim batol all bosses, ara’kara first boss. They all required you to rotate cd’s properly in any key you’re not overgearing tbh. If we’re talking about doing S1 10s in 625+ gear, of course we won’t have to keep a cd up as much.
I’m just not seeing consistency in the level of danger for all the ones you presented in S1. I could take a number of those with just active mitigation, but even overgeared, void slash, the flame renders and giants, and the guardians would put me in mortal peril without an actual cd.
In s2, puncture, the peacekeepers, and all of the minibosses rise to that level. It may not be a one shot, but they will get my health low enough that death is a serious possibility without doing something to fix it.
I never had to worry about cds for the dawnbreaker bosses, CoT 2nd boss, any of the GB bosses or Ara’kara. There was always something up regardless of what I pressed. Stonevault 1st boss was a healer tankbuster, but I would keep my finger ready if they missed the dispel.
CoT 1st boss is the only one where the tankbusters were frequent enough that sequence mattered.
I’m primarily a raider, so I don’t push much past rewards, so all of this is 10-11 from the first few weeks to the season end. The ones you mentioned may get more serious if you’re pushing higher.
I’ll go to 3k this season for the new mount/achievement, so I expect it will be harder for longer.