Context: I am a player who started playing wow in season 1 of Dragonflight and I quit during the middle of January 2023, because of how gatekeepy M+ was and how raid loot operated.
Personal Loot with Trade Option: Implementing a personal loot system without trade restrictions enhances the player experience by ensuring everyone receives rewards directly. Group loot makes it feel like why did I even attempt this raid because it doesn’t even increase my chances of getting a drop next raid, so I just wasted my time. Allowing Mythic raiders to trade loot within a certain time frame maintains fairness while accommodating loot distribution strategies.
Maintain M+ Keys on Failure: Removing the key depletion penalty upon failure promotes player perseverance and learning from mistakes. This change acknowledges the value of players’ time and encourages continued engagement with challenging content. In a time where your free time is valuable why I am getting set back for trying to complete something. I can spend 30 minutes trying to find a group then 30 more to clear the dungeon and in the end I end up farther back to when I started.
Introduce a Ranked System for Mythic+: Implementing a ranked system in Mythic+ addresses toxicity and matchmaking challenges by pairing players of similar skill levels. This fosters a more positive environment for progression and cooperation, while providing tangible goals and rewards for advancement. People that want to play with their friends can just make premade groups and run M+ that way.
Revise Time Locks for Normal and Heroic Raids: Adjusting or removing time locks for Normal and Heroic raids improves player flexibility and enhances the social aspect of the game. This allows players to pursue their preferred pace of progression and facilitates easier coordination with friends of varying playstyles. I think mythic raids should stay time locked because it would create a lot of toxicity in guilds because members might feel like other members aren’t doing similar work to strengthen their characters. Not only that, but if you have friends that don’t want to grind then you can just make an alt and raid log with them. I feel like how it is currently it’s impossible to catch up if you don’t start from the very beginning of the season. What percentage of players are even reaching full Heroic BiS every season? Accelerating the acquisition of Heroic and Normal gear would help the prestige associated with earning and beating Mythic content.
youre not a new player if you can do M+. I would know, ive played since 2005 and i cant even do mythics over maybe +2 because of a handicap with my hands.
I agree with you otherwise.
The only one of your suggestions that I really support is changing the raid lockout. If M+ is farmable then raids should be also.
We don’t need a M+ matchmaking system, I’m OK with keys depleting for failures, and personal loot was removed for a reason…and removing trade restrictions would make that reason even worse.
It’s a miserable experience for old and new alike, but at least if you’re an old player you expect it and can overlook it. If you’re really keen on doing them, you need to find a guild that focuses on them which will make the experience much better.
Group loot IS PL with trade option. PL will not return, due to group stacking.
PL didn’t do this either.
If you failed the key, it means it was too much for the group. It also keeps people from getting Mythic ilevel gear in a week by continually being rewarded for failing.
No. It doesn’t.
Run M+. Your gear acquisition is accelerated.
Also: none of this sounds like something from a “new” player.
Because of group stacking. PL was based off of group composition. Stack it with all leather or all Druids, funnel an entire tier’s worth of gear to them in roughly one run to gear up FotM or newbies as fast as possible. This occurred in LFR through Heroic. Blizzard didn’t want that.
Essentially, players were stacking certain armor types/classes to manipulate what loot was dropping. It became a big part of RWF and carry sales, but the trade restriction limited it’s impact initially.
Don’t you think it would be better to fix it then just say it’s a mistake to play M+???
How do you expect new players to play and continue playing if the explanation is “Oh that is terrible, just don’t do it.”
yall are treating op like this is his first time sitting in front of a screen
being new to WoW =/= new to competitive video games or the MMO genre
his achievements line up with his claim of being new
Group loot IS PL with trade option. PL will not return, due to group stacking.
Response: Please explain to me how the current system is personal loot with trading. Maybe I am not 100% familiar with the system or the PL system that was in previous expansions. Other games like destiny have PL loot and it feels way more rewarding than wow in my opinion.
If you failed the key, it means it was too much for the group. It also keeps people from getting Mythic ilevel gear in a week by continually being rewarded for failing.
Response: This is a good point. Maybe once you pass heroic ilvl drops in M+ then keys should start depleting in level.
No. It doesn’t.
Response: How does a ranked system not reduce toxicity? Why are people toxic in M+? You think people are being toxic if you timed the key perfectly? If players feel like they are playing with players that are of equal skill level there would be less toxicity of saying players are trash or bad.
Run M+. Your gear acquisition is accelerated.
Response: That’s not a valid answer to the proposal. You can’t just tell players go to do something else. Maybe I want to raid for my gear and not do M+. Why is that not an option.
Because the way people get dungeon scores is not static, so you will still likely run into underskilled players of all rankings (like we do now)…which would likely lead to more toxicity. For example, they could have gotten their score up on a “push” week or they could have been carried to a higher score by their friends or they could have even paid for carries.
So the problem wasn’t with personal loot it’s the way players are able to manipulate it. Fix the ability to manipulate it and it is solved. Also I don’t know why people are always concerned with people acting maliciously. People cheating or paying for carries or buying gold is always going to exist. The best way is to reduce it as best you can without making it a pain for players playing the right way.
No, because everyone has a different idea of what “fixing” it would be. There will always be people who are unhappy about the changes they make and those are usually the people who speak the loudest.
There are plenty of people who would disagree with me and say M+ is fun, it doesn’t need to be changed. There are plenty of people who like it, but would like changes. And there are plenty of people who can’t stand it or who would like to see it removed altogether.
You can’t please everyone.
Also, M+ isn’t a requirement. You don’t HAVE to do M+ to enjoy the game and there’s plenty of other content to enjoy. If you don’t like it, the best thing to do is to find a different aspect of the game to enjoy.
New players especially shouldn’t be considering M+, they should be learning the game, enjoying the other content and working their way up to M+.
I don’t see M+ changing any time soon in any case That’s just my two cents.
I’m not sure how many other games you have played before with ranked systems. Your rank would also go down if you lose keys. Not only that the more you play and lose the less you would gain per completion. If the underskilled players got to a rank they didn’t deserve eventually they would go down the ranks because if they are the reason the group isn’t timing keys. Their rating would go down.
“People” in this case is Blizzard. They have their set goals of how fast they want people to gear on average. They likely also did not like how the system incentivized paid carries.
And there is no way to “fix it” with the way personal loot works unless you have some magical solution that no one else thought of. If the gear that drops is based on the players present, it can always be easily manipulated and abused. The only obvious alternative would be to disable all trading, which I don’t think anyone wants.
Yeah, and everybody else in their group’s ranking would go down with them, which would make the toxicity WAAAAY worse. The weaker player could just go get more carries if they wanted to get their score back up.
Currently, if the group fails the key, the only person really penalized is the key owner and bringing a key back up is pretty simple.
That’s just my two cents.