You have laid the foundation with Torghast to show it is possible to have an alternate system that doesn’t just rely on the timer, now use that to make an option for dungeons where players can do something other than just the enemy % and the time.
It allows players who want to take a little longer, but clear more and still get a key upgrade, it even gives the option that you can put objectives in place where someone can simply pass the dungeon and get an equal random key for the next dungeon.
But importantly for those who genuinely enjoy the current M+ option, or who want a fast run, it will allow those players rush the time to get a high time score by simply clearing enough enemies and timing it fast enough that they will get a key upgrade.
The problem I see is that even in Torghast its far more favorable to full clear rather than go quickly. The large pulls/speed clears wouldn’t change if you want to go optimally, and deaths in the Torghast system are arguably even more punishing so that would make messy keys even worse.
At the end of the day, there will still be some kind of time component incorporated into the “score”, and that can be fine but how much room do you think the dungeons should give for an upgrade or not? So a “new” system could work but I don’t think many players want more systems in place, especially one that still scores.
Don’t deaths also separate the good from the bad? Like if you die enough than you won’t time it, same with Torghast, die too many times and get too many penalties and you won’t get your upgrade to the next level.
Adding a scoring system that penalises deaths is not different to how it is now, except now there just isn’t a score. So it will allow players to die a few times and miss the timer, but also allow them to spend significantly longer in a dungeon doing side objectives to still get a score.
It’s a win for Blizzard too, because it means some players won’t be rushing content and pulling 2-3+ keys a day, they will get one key done in that time and therefore only one chance at gear so it will take us longer to get to end game.
Yes deaths do achieve a skill difference, but my point is deaths in the new Torghast system are far more weighted.
Died 3 times in old Torghast? Didn’t matter at all.
Died 3 times in new Torghast? You lost 60 points, and your run was probably already ruined after the first or is really close to not getting 200 points.
So a death reduction is fine, just like in M+ now, but if we assume this new M+ scoring would go the same way as the Torghast changes a death probably won’t be 5 seconds off a timer, it will probably be like 1 minute in terms of the impact.
Basically, I believe deaths will be weighted so heavily that even a couple will keep your key from upgrading, if a new system is implemented. That seems like it only further encourages perfect play while also going trying to go as quick as possible.
This argument would hold more weight if it was not possible to speed through Torghast and wind up with a bad score due to deaths, lack of completion, lack of bonuses, etc.
Good players: see all the says they can increase score
Bad players: focus one one aspect, like speed/time, and then whine when their score sucks.
A scoring system like Torghast might take more a kiss/curse set up for affixis, so you can increase your score by things like makeing the explosives hurt mobs, makig mobs get hit by volcanos/quakes/twisters, etc.
Asking for mythic+ to be changed not gonna fly. You would be better off designing a new dungeon mode separate from mythic+ that offers you the game experience you desire.
100% agree. The timer is the root of most of the problems in M+. Almost every complaint and issue people have is based on the idea of “timing” versus “completion”.
If they want a timer for leaderboard crap for the minority to flex there epeens sure but it shouldn’t factor into the content. Speedrunning doesn’t belong in an RPG as an actual feature.
If anything, the timer should only be a bonus not a goal. E. G. Keep the bonus level or loot for getting a certain time, but completion should be the main thing not beating the time.
It’s really about the loot. If some of the best gear didn’t come from completing a 15 people wouldn’t care.
Timing is just a DPS check. You need to do X damage in Y time. If you want the same loot without the timer it’s not going to be balanced to where it’s the same dungeon without a timer and all you have to do is finish it, it’s going to balanced like a mythic raid survival challenge. A group that can’t time it wont be able to even finish it.
This is really about if the whole game should be a Skinner box, “Press button, get loot” participation game or if it should have any type of skill challenge.
Personally? A little of both. Not everything has to be Uber challenging, especially when it’s a small and very loud minority wanting it so they can show off.
It shouldn’t be idle game easy either, but lately it seems the devs are incorrectly thinking the loudest people are also the majority and designing to appease them not the “fat middle”
You have LFR to heroic raids and normal to m14 dungeons. And over the course of a tier with catch up and more people gearing up, it all gets closer to just needing to show up because so many people out gear it.
The issue is the best loot is reserved for the hardest content. Either you believe in this concept, hardest content for best reward, or you don’t.
-Keys don’t deplete if they’re completed regardless of time
-Timer remains as a bonus loot and upgrade option
-If the timer is met, upgrade the key and award 3 pieces
-If the timer is not met, do not upgrade the key and award 2 pieces
Seems like a fair compromise to me. What are the opinions of others?
I do not. Well, I feel that there should always be a currency system and you can get more for the harder content, but it should speed up how soon you get the items not that you’re the only ones who can get them at all. So for example a casual person might take 3 months to get the same piece of gear that a mythic raider can get within one month.
But ultimately I feel the middle is what should be focused on, not the extreme. The people who do the “hardest content” are such a small minority that they should be the exception, not the rule.
This is exactly how I think it should be, with maybe completing giving a +1 key (you did complete it after all) and completing faster giving you +2/+3 depending on speed and the bonus loot. Completing the dungeon, timing or not, should be the focus of M+ and right now the biggest issue is they focus on it being speedrunning rather than scaling content. There should be an incentive to time but not a punishment for not doing so.