Casual players and soloers shouldn't be able to progress

[Zemekkis-whisperwind]

EDIT: my original post was a bit harsh and complained about people being elitists.

But seriously, just let people play the game as they see fit.

[Ghorum-moknathal]

Why do you care about other people’s ilvl unless you PvP? Otherwise it seems silly to complain about something that doesn’t effect you at all.

[Maddof-illidan]

Exactly, this is like someone in America worrying about what someone in China is wearing.

[Fortuna-madoran]

This topic is new and original and exci…

Sorry, I can’t complete that sentence with a straight face.

TLDR: You make me want to puke.

[Blimpo-thunderhorn (Blimpo)]

It is not less valuable, it does not effect the monetary value, it goes not make it less effective. It does affect it in any way except in a irrational emotional way.

[Zeerionjax-argent-dawn (Zeerionjax)]

@Valendin-proudmoore

Blizzard made this what it is. When they started cross realm phasing and merging, it killed server communities. No one was accountable for their behavior anymore. The game has suffered ever since.

Truer words never spoken.

As for the OP, No!

NEXT!

Semper Fi!

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

@Rankin-shandris

The player behind the character matters more than what gear they have.

Agreed. Also, irrelevant to the question.

Pay better attention.

@Rankin-shandris

That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.

Then why do you keep bringing it up?

Pay better attention.

@Rankin-shandris

When in a real inflationary system, it would change.

Not according to the exact “$20” example you provided.

Pay better attention.

@Rankin-shandris

You’re just using inflation as a club in your anti-casual rant just so you can avoid coming up with a real argument.

Okay, so here’s the deal.

I know I’m right, but more importantly, so do you. It’s obvious in the way that you keep trying to “shift the goal-posts”.

If you want to deal with the actual arguments that have been made, I am willing to engage with you in civil discussion. I want this game to be the best that it can be, even for the casual player.

Until then, you have your willful ignorance.

I’m told that it’s blissful in there.

[Fluffergyrl-dalaran (Fluffergyrl)]

But this is inherently wrong because the things gear “purchases” aren’t finite. Rankin gaining power doesn’t take anything away from Groms power. Ilevel inflation is nothing like monetary inflation. Player power isn’t a limited resource. Rankins power increase did nothing to lower the ability of Groms power to still kill mobs.
The only thing it takes away from is Groms epeen level over Rankin. And that’s something that has nothing to do with the “long term health of the game”. The inability of a largish portion of the playerbase to meaningfully progress thier characters does.

[Lovefool-alterac-mountains (Lovefool)]

Let’s be honest - No one wants me in their guild because I am rarely around.

[Thorun-steamwheedle-cartel (Thorun)]

haha love it haha

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

Agreed. Also, irrelevant to the question.

Pay better attention.

You mean it’s irrelevant to your contrived situation. Anyone normally looking to recruit a new person is going to look at more than just their item level.

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

Then why do you keep bringing it up?

Because you keep confusing gear with currency.

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

Not according to the exact “$20” example you provided.

I, uh, what? You’re making less sense with each post.

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

I know I’m right, but more importantly, so do you. It’s obvious in the way that you keep trying to “shift the goal-posts”.

But you’re not right. You’re completely off-the-walls crazy with your hatred of casuals.

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

Until then, you have your willful ignorance.

That’s almost amusing coming from you while you’re holding your hands over your ears and yelling as loud as you can.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

@Blimpo-thunderhorn

It is not less valuable

It is objectively less valuable.

@Blimpo-thunderhorn

it does not effect the monetary value,

No, but that’s not what we’re talking about.

@Blimpo-thunderhorn

it goes not make it less effective.

It absolute output? No.

In relative power? Yes.

@Blimpo-thunderhorn

It does affect it in any way except in a irrational emotional way.

In a mathematically provable way.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

@Fluffergyrl-dalaran

But this is inherently wrong because the things gear “purchases” aren’t finite. Rankin gaining power doesn’t take anything away from Groms power.

It’s inherently right, because value is relative.

Again, if I have a 340ilvl hunter, and Rankin has a 445ilvl hunter, and we both attempt to go raid, his hunter will be picked every time.

Him having 445 ilvl doesn’t make my character lose any DPS, but since his character can do more DPS, his character is more valuable.

@Fluffergyrl-dalaran

And that’s something that has nothing to do with the “long term health of the game”. The inability of a largish portion of the playerbase to meaningfully progress thier characters does.

Believe it or not, I kind of agree with you. I understand that nuance isn’t really a thing on the forums, and I’ve stated this several times, but let me be clear:

1. I want all players to be able to have fun with the game. I don’t want anyone, even the most solo-casual-whatever player, to feel like there is nothing in the game for them. But the solution that has been tried is to simply dump a bunch of gear into the system, and that’s not healthy for the game.
2. Reducing the overall amount of “cheap gear” out there actually harms the people at the bottom way more than people at the top. The Sco’s of the world will always have outstanding gear, because they are at the cutting edge of the most difficult content in the game. The people at the “bottom”, however, have their gear increases devalued as more gear enters the system.

[Vodkanokers-bladefist]

Ohhhh you are such a special snowflake…

Thanks for sharing your drivel in such detail.

How validated did you feel writing all that ignorance?

[Revolution-emerald-dream]

In other words certain players are not playing how you’d like to play yourself. Choice and freedom are also very important aspects of any MMORPG, and alas not all players are necessarily sociable. That, however, is their choice.

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

Again, if I have a 340ilvl hunter, and Rankin has a 445ilvl hunter, and we both attempt to go raid, his hunter will be picked every time.

I like how you had to come up with an even more unlikely scenario after realizing that 400 vs 415 was ridiculous.

@Grøm-altar-of-storms

Him having 445 ilvl doesn’t make my character lose any DPS, but since his character can do more DPS, his character is more valuable.

And if they removed Mythic raiding, I wouldn’t be able to have 445 item level, which again proves my point that Mythic raiding does more to contribute to gear inflation. It also proves (again) that you don’t care about gear inflation at all. It’s just a crutch to prop up your lame anti-casual ranting.

[Gharren-sisters-of-elune]

the most hilarious part of his “argument” is that he’s objectively wrong and yells at you that you are. lol

[Sarondil-windrunner]

@Lillithe-ravenholdt

This is an MMO, the point is to join a guild or community and do hard content with others

Is this even true of modern MMOs? Guild Wars was certainly an MMO, but the entire Nightfall expansion could be done solo. GW2 and DAOC only qualify if by “hard content” you mean large scale PvP. ESO is basically single-player all the way though, with the main reason to join a guild being for the auctions, and so on.

Your definition sounds more like Everquest, and ironically one of the reasons WoW crushed EQ was less emphasis on group play, not more.

[Izael-illidan]

I’m a casual/solo player these days. I own my own guild with only myself and my alts in it. I used to progression raid, but I haven’t been in a guild since Legion where I did Mythic Emerald Nightmare clears/farming for progression before I quit raiding entirely. Having said this, I whole heartedly agree with you. It’s stupid that I have a raider’s iLvL doing random quests every now and then. I put little to no effort into gearing and just passively acquire iLvL as I farm mounts and xmogs.

Back when I first started WoW in BC, I remember loving how I had steps to build up to raiding, and finally getting into a raid was a big deal. These days I can walk in and dominate any time which cheapens the good vibes of progression and building a character up. I have little to no attachment to my main anymore, which probably explains why I now have so many alts in recent expansions. I’m just not as invested because there’s no reason to join a guild or hang out anymore.

[Skintaker-moon-guard]

@Lillithe-ravenholdt

This is an MMO, the point is to join a guild or community and do hard content with others. Blizzard is doing an amazing first step to likely permanently changing the mechanics of titan forging (corruption may not be permanent, but mechanics surely will be) and that is great because soloers and casual players shouldn’t be able to avoid high end raiding to get more ilvl and more progression without even needing a group.

Further removing any progression would allow more group content in WoW, more people being social and offer a great reason to join endgame raiding guilds. Soloers and casual players should only be able to experience the story, but not get endgame items.

Its seeming to be going this way with changes to titan forging, and I’m looking forward especially to the level squish (likely will happen, but its not 100% of course) which hopefully will further reduce the ability to progress solo and casual. There isn’t much a point in guilds or endgame raiding if you can get great items just by not even doing raids.

Plus its an MMO WoW isn’t a singleplayer RPG. Hopefully blizzard further gives reason for more grouping and high end raiding.

I have been subscribed to World of WarCraft since December 2004 and have not unsubscribed a single day since then.

If Blizzard ever agrees with you, even slightly, I’m cancelling all five of my accounts and never looking back.

I play this game specifically because I can advance/progress solo, and because it is relatively easy to do so.

I will never join your group. Deal with it.