There is a lot of posts about this issue, I hope that blizz devs can work it out. Pvp players doesn’t need too much to have fun. Uncap/fix mmr so we can have fun and live in… peace.
I queued shuffle tonight…
Same stuff, every lobby is people griping, blaming, crap talking. It is at an all time boiling point.
Why leave a system in that is making people bicker and fight? Oof.
From people that don’t understand math.
It’s not as simple as changing a number, though.
It’s not broken or capped. It’s working exactly how it’s supposed to.
The “issue” is the bottom ~1k rating that usually exists on the ladder has moved to BGB instead of shuffle/3s.
Mmr is a relative ladder. When the bottom 1/3 of the rungs on the ladder are taken away, the top of the ladder is lower than before.
Blizzard can’t just “inject mmr” into the ladder to compensate for those players existing elsewhere, because they can Q up shuffle at any time (and likely would with 1k free mmr). This would add that 1k mmr back ON TOP of the “injected” mmr and we’d see everyone get 3.5k+ rating again.
Nothing is broken. Nothing is capped. It’s just that the lower end of the playerbase is playing blitz.
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Why not inject mmr? Blitz is already boosted to hell so it’s not like there’s any rewards people will magically get that they wouldn’t from blitz.
From people that don’t understand math. Blockquote
Your premise of the numbers being low, or something being different in shuffle is wrong. So before you insult people and say that people don’t know how to do math, understand you are the one that is wrong.
The API data is there for you to go look at. The first two weeks of the expansion had the highest numbers we have seen in shuffle and more shuffle games than RBGS by a factor for 2 and they were still hard capping rating at 2.1 despite no cap being applied to RBGS.
I’m just not pvping at all. Did some blitz on my rogue and I remembered why I stopped qing random bgs in WOD. Not fun, bunch of road fighting people who type garbage in chat while being totally devoid of how the bg works.
I see no reason to shuffle or reg 3s with capped mmr and I’m not supporting blitz because it’s total garbage.
It is not.
I am not, nor am I insulting anyone. This is just another clear case of someone not understanding how math works, and that’s okay!
This is inaccurate and you’re misunderstanding how sample size works. There were ~2x as many shuffle LOBBIES being played (full 6 rounds). However, a full shuffle lobby includes 6 unique players. A single bgblitz has a sample of 16 unique players. Assuming every lobby has unique players, this is still more in blitz.
However, that assumption doesn’t hold true, and there are FAR more unique players in blitz than shuffle.
To help illustrate this, here’s an example:
You could have the same 24 people cycle through healers and dps and play out 10 lobbies each in different permutations of 4 lobbies at a time, for 40 total lobbies played across 24 unique people. In that same time, you could have any two random groups of 16 people each play a single BGB game each, and youd have 32 unique players. That’s a 33% higher sample size (32/24=1.33) despite playing 5% of the lobbies.
The number and spread of unique players is what causes inflation, because mmr is calculated at the individual player level - NOT the number of lobbies or games played.
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Again, I’m not insulting, but you are exactly the kind of person I’m talking about, and your post is evidence of such. You don’t know how MMR or math works, and that’s okay. You don’t need to know how mmr functions to play a game. You’re not alone in this.
I can absolutely see and understand how you or anyone else could look at drustvar and see, “oh, 20k shuffle lobbies played and 12k blitz games played, but people are 3k in blitz and 2k in shuffle?! That doesn’t look right! Mmr must be capped!”
But that’s not the truth of the matter, nor is that how MMR or math works.
There are TWO factors that influence the spread of mmr:
1 is population. Since mmr is a relative comparison to other people on the ladder, over time a larger population will naturally case the spread to increase.
2 is the spread of ability. Hypothetically, if the ladder consisted of 10000 people and they all went exactly 50/50 against everyone, every player would be ~1500 and there would be no spread. Obviously that’s unrealistic, and some people will win more than others. We don’t know EXACTLY how blizzard’s mmr system works, but we know its based off of the elo formula, which forces a normal distribution.
Normal distibutions are NOT influenced by the average player; they are only pulled by outliers on the high OR low end. We can easily see and verify that the high end is still playing; the same r1/awc players/multi glads are still very much Qing the game. The people who are NOT Qing shuffle/3s anymore are the lower outliers; the people who objectively struggle and lose far more than they win.
This is not demeaning or belittling anyone, it’s a fact of math. Those players exist, and now there’s a way for them to contact success and get rewards that they would previously never achieve; and I don’t blame them for doing that. However, that has a consequence on the ladder as a whole. If you cut off the bottom 25% and put it in another ladder, the original ladder is 25% shorter and the other ladder is 25% higher.
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My guy , You over here arguing about blitz having more players than SS.
You completely miss the point where we have more people playing SS THIS season 1 than last season 1 in DF . We had plenty of people at 2400 around the same time.
People are doing blitz because it’s easier to get into and you can suck and still win.
(But the more people there are the less your individual skill will carry you.)
But people are ALSO spam queing blitz right now because the highest rating you can be in SS is 2200 1 month in the expansion.
aka the mmr is capped.
Yeah, I don’t blame you. Low rated BGB is not worth doing. Even high rated BgB is annoying with slightly more competent people.
The low rated ones make me even not want to try because I’m baffled at what everyone is trying to do and I just want to /afk out.
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But we don’t, though. We objectively do not have as many unique players.
There are more lobbies because there are more healers Qing relative to # of players than in df s1.
Yes, absolutely.
Sort of, but it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy thing.
It’s not. If everyone who played enough games of blitz for the system to recognize them as a player Qd up and played 5-10 solo shuffle lobbies, then you’d see the shuffle MMR explode. The “cap” is a community problem, not a systems one.
The reason why they’re forcing people to play blitz is because it takes an eternity to push rating with +24s, so they let mmr inflate to a ridiculous amount to keep people subbed & playing.
Shuffle Andys the moment their bracket isn’t wildly inflated because everyone is playing blitz now. Remember when you guys were taunting 3v3 enjoyers for this EXACT same reason? Pepperidge farms remembers.
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Was going to say when I’m done raiding I’m going straight to reg 3’s lol. 20 min q’s in solo at peak is realllly bad.
I’m flummoxed that people are surprised by certain elements of Nas’ point.
Blitz removed a large cross-section of pvpers out of shuffle as people tend to gravitate towards bgs as they’re less stressful and individual skill dependent. This caused shuffle to bottom out and condensed the bracket. You essentially lost the lower to lower middle class population causing a complete redistribution of the theoretical shuffle caste system. It’s not capped. The population from DF to TWW is no longer mutually exclusive. It’s basically reinventing the whole game-mode distribution.
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OP I think the Bottleneck was glorious! It was like one big stress test, it revealed a ton of things about rated pvp that players did not know about.
In the long run these issues will be fixed, and it will make the game better.
If players regardless of game do not feel they are getting a fair shake, they get frustrated and quit, take their money to another company. Blizzard is working to improve the queue system, I feel this is gonna be a WIN for all gamers.
If this is true, then you have done a very nice job of articulating the real issue that I haven’t seen outlined before.
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The issue is still not fixed. It really shows how little Blizzard thinks of the community to completely ignore feedback like this.
You dont think shuffle mmr is capped? It was definitely capped at 2.1k/2.2k at the start of the season and they are letting weekly inflation slowly increase that cap, which is why we have nobody at 2.4k right now 5 weeks into the season despite every single other bracket including RBGs having people over 2.4k. People were going 6-0 at 2.1k mmr in shuffle second and third week and gaining 0 mmr despite vsing people at the same mmr. That is a cap for sure. Bicmex and I think zenlyn posted a lot of proof of that.
With how many people were actually playing shuffle the first few weeks, people would have been around blitz mmr/cr if there was no cap, but realistically they should have just capped it at like 2.3 or 2.4k and let weekly inflation handle the rest, 2.1k was way too low of a cap to start with. This is much lower than any season of DF 5 weeks in that I can remember and I promise you it is not due to participation, people were queuing a lot (not sure about now since there is very little progression in shuffle due to this issue) and would have been pushing much higher if not for this.
I dont think shuffle should ever really get ahead of 3s in rating, but it should be close to it at least. And right now even for the best/most popular specs in shuffle, it is not even close to the same cr.
Playing with MMR cap in shuffle/Bgb (and conquest cap too) feels like a HUGE waste of time. No rewards and no progression