This may seem rude but I really don’t want to play a game where they’ve made gearing idiot proof… with just how unique some players play in order to make it 100% visual it would have to be 100% based on ilvl and secondary abilities/proc would need to be simplified too…
Some people just need to be left behind so that the majority can have fun, especially the people who don’t do content where the proper stats matter in the first place.
Simming is easy, used to have to do all your gearing/weights by hand after all.
No… A variety of specs get different interactions with their stats. Haste, for instance, will often (but not always) reduce the cooldown on an ability that generates another resource. Certain break points for dot classes might even have rotational effects. Crit, similarly, can cause procs that affect rotation to the point that having certain amounts makes changes.
And then of course the interaction of all of these things. Crit increase crit chance, sure, but haste equals more hits equals more crits, which do you need more? How does that scale relative to talents, traits, trinkets, essences?
It’s funny to me how people act like wow stats and everything are so overly simple, yet a huge portion of players, including the knowledgeable high end players, have to use a program to sim their characters because things are too complicated to do manually anymore.
Wow. some secondary stats have interactions with the class, which is what makes them the 1 or 2 main stats a class relies on. Whodathought.
It still doesn’t change the fact, you basically just stack 3 stats to the stars, because those are the three best stats for you (Main stat + 2 secondaries)
When you ignore 80% of a post, you admit your inability to address it, the validity of everything the other person says, and your failure in the whole situation. You want to keep whining about stats despite them being a small piece of a more complicated puzzle. But you go ahead and believe that you have better ideas.
Or, maybe you can realize I’m aware of why some stats are heavily weighed for some classes, but I still find the dynamic that you basically stack main stat + 2 best secondary stats for your class, to be underwhelming, uninteresting, and feeling like zero actual thought gets put into it?
The systems today are numerously less complex than they used to be. They basically turned a bunch of sub stats and piled them onto a main stat and called it done.
Yes, there is a reason each class has a few secondary stats that are the majorly heavily weighted stats.
That still doesn’t mean that stacking 3 stats to the skies isn’t less dull and unimaginative.
I mean… it’s complicated for the wrong reasons though… I’d rather have more stat types with simple interactions, than few stat types with complicated interactions.
More stat types with simple interactions allows me to work out for myself what is logically a sound build.
Less stat types with complicated interactions means… The whole thing is a straight up convoluted mess and I’m forced to sim it in the end.
One lets a player have a shot at figuring out a decent build on their own, while the other… just doesn’t. Without sims we’d have absolutely ZERO idea as to how strong each of the azerite traits are, or how they impact our stat weights, or how talents impact stat weights, or how stats themselves affect their respective stat weights…
Edit: Long story short, someone saying to me +hit is the best stat up to 8% gives me a clear guideline on how to proceed. Past that it’s just optimizing my gear to get 8% hit without going too far over (if at all over). As it is now… the ONLY correct answer for gear is: Sim it.
My fire mage is a prime example. You’d think that a spec that is expressly built around critical strikes to proc instant nukes would in some way be interested in crit. You’d think that… and you’d be wrong. Your next thought may be to be interested in mastery, afterall a large chunk of your damage is from ignite! You’d think that… and (for my mage currently) you’d be wrong. No what you actually need… is vers… Oh wait… unless you’re AoEing, then you need mastery again… but not too much or you’ll lose out on too much ST damage…
Yeah, I’m not sure I’d try to argue with this. I’m not saying our system is the best system possible, just that it isn’t simple. Unlike what other dude seems to think, sometimes the stats feel counterintuitive and it’s very much not just stack these 2 stats.
Almost all of my toons that I bother to sim have different weights for single target vs aoe, and that varies again depending on the length of each type of encounter. For many of them, depending on what azerite traits I have also changes the weights. For this reason I have 40 pieces of gear saved and quit often find that one upgrade moves the weights around that demands a different piece in a different spot. Now you could ask if I’m doing content where that much precision matters and… no.
If you actually believe that main stat+ stack is all there is to it, you really don’t understand the system that well.
This system is not more or less complex. There was no complexity to finding a bis slot gear list and copy/ pasting it. There was no complexity to reading a guide for hit/ expertise and maintaining those values or to reforging everything based off a guide.
There is no yolo builds anymore, and I think that is what you are looking for. Accurate meters and logs have removed a lot of the mystery to gearing.
First off, I didn’t say main stat stacking is all that matters. I said your basically stacking your main stat + ~2 secondary stats.
Most classes have a number of secondary stats, that out perform other secondary stats. You want to get those secondary stats as high as you feasibly can for maximum benefits.
And your primary stat is always baked into your gear.
It’s really not that complicated, and is overall very dull.
The only major complications come with the Azerite Traits, and usually trinkets from what I understand.
Azerite traits are dead the moment this expansion ends, and trinkets have usually been wildcards, so now real change there.
is it minorly a bit of hyperbole to say you basically stack 3 stats and only 3 stats. Sure, but more often than not, your going to have high primary stats, and 2 secondary stats that are significantly higher in commitment than others.
Again, this system is not that simple. Azerite traits, talents, trinkets, race, essences, fight duration, style, comp, and burn windows all change the value of stats. Even currently equipped gear can impact what is or is not an upgrade.
I’d rather the complexity be tied to mechanics and style than paper stats like mp5 vs spirit.
You know secondary stats are better point per point than a primary stat for tons of players, right? If anything I’d say we should simplify stats a tad.
Versatility is PvP Power + Resilience in one stat, applied to all environments. It is not necessarily bad, but it really sucks when you have to depend on a stat like this to fix the others you have at your disposal. If it were not for versatility, some classes in PvP environment would be made of paper.
About some people bashing complexity of stats, I have to disagree with you. This variety allows for greater customization of characters. Otherwise, gear are just stat sticks, and you could just shove it all away, right? Then 100% of the game would be skill based, which honestly would make it much more bland in my opinion, and I think the playerbase agrees with it, after the world scaling fiasco we saw in Legion.
At some stage, there was an argument to be made that int was straight up better than spirit even for mana management, because the increased healing from int would save more mana by merit of not having to cast extra heals than spirit would regen over the course of the fight. Of course that assumes an environment where overhealing isn’t really happening and if true could have been fixed via tuning, but still, I wonder if that played into dropping the stat.
Intelligence could work to do what Spirit did for mana regeneration, however there was a design decision to fix mana regeneration to a set pace. I was happy Hit was removed. I am happy with the statistics as is but do wish there was a bit more in-game information or a better way in game (without addons) to compare gear. Just going for “better” stats doesn’t tell the complete picture.
For those who say WoW is like Diablo with regard to stats, I would disagree. Diablo has far more which may appear on gear but feels like it has a better method in game for comparing gear and viewing the discrete results.
It’s not buzz, it’s been an issue since cata. Cata gave everyone a heal, everyone received a stun, everyone had a new resource, everyone just became the same class.
Whether the stats are simple or complex isn’t the main issue. The main issue is that as it currently stands, in order to truly understand if a piece of gear is an upgrade, you have to leave the game and use a third party resource. I’m sorry but that’s just piss poor game design. At no point should any player have to pause their time in game to go outside of the game to figure out what’s going on with their character. I can’t really think of another RPG off the top of my head that requires it’s players to leave the game in order to build their character effectively.
They can’t add complexity to stats when the majority of players either a) don’t care, or b) stack whatever Icy Veins tells them to. They can only make doing those two things either more or less tedious, and given the choice, I’d gladly go with “less tedious”.
And, of course, every added hint of complexity on gear is another reason for people to complain about not getting the BiS drops, as though the reason they can’t clear raids is because they have the haste helm instead of the crit helm (when it’s really because they’re just not that good).
Taken as a whole, I’d be happy if they just made gear all main stats and put character customization into expanded talents. In HotS for instance, if you want a playstyle that’s faster than normal for your hero you don’t go around hoping to eventually collect enough RNG to get your haste set, you just pick the appropriate talent and get to the actual playing-the-game part.
