Patch 11.1 absolutely decimated Odyn’s Fury
For Mountain Thane it’s a 4-5% dps loss on 5 targets. 7-8% dps loss on single target.
For Slayer it’s within 1% on 5 targets while being a 3-4% loss on single target.
Now you might say that doesn’t sound so bad for Slayer except that Mountain Thane is absolutely destroying Slayer on AoE damage by upwards of 14%. And when you look at the single target damage of both specs when playing M+ builds they are within 1% of each other.
The patch notes specifically called out the Titan’s Torment change as an opportunity to keep Odyn’s Fury being a strong button, and that has failed tremendously. It is not the best choice for essentially any realistic scenario, and you sacrifice a pretty large amount of single target dps to try and take it on top of that.
I like Odyn’s Fury. Burst is fun. Please buff this ability to actually be wortwhile.
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Hard to find 11.1 logs with OF even being used by Slayer but having found one M Queen kill and then comparing the previous kills from that person in similar gear (they only changed gloves between kills).
Pre 11.1 OF was 38-50% better with Titan’s Torment than the 11.1 variant. Which makes sense numbers wise since you’d have an extra cast for every 2 casts alongside the increased avatar uptime that would always be applied to each regular OF cast.
So realistically to put OF back to an important ability to press for all builds that would consider taking it, it would need to be buffed by roughly 30% or to buff it by a little less and then add additional bonuses to it’s capstones such as Dancing Blades while increasing AA speed also increasing AA damage (could be a 50-100% modifier) and for Titanic Rage to provide an extended 2s duration when hitting 3+ targets or for it to provide a buff to your next Bloodthirst cast that deals increased damage and adjusts the next 2x meat cleaved abilities to hit up to an additional 8 targets so it provides some invaluable benefit to moments where there are lots of targets while also providing a window of opportunity so players have to think carefully as to when they want to use OF during an encounter.
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Yep, yep, yep… Agreed with everything said here.
With that being said, Mountain Thane is simming significantly below than Slayer for Single Target for me. Is this consistent with everyone else?
I am still missing OF a lot, but I gotta say… Thunder Blast feels so INCREADIBLY STRONG… that I almost forgive taking away my opener burst.
On pure single target builds, sure the difference isn’t minor. But you have to think how often is that an applicable situation.
While this doesn’t always apply either, I’ve found the single target damage of the two builds in their M+ specs to be within 2-3% of each other. But obviously Mountain Thane blows Slayer out of the water in AoE damage in those specs while still offering almost the same Single Target.
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I ran Slayer exclusively last season in both raids and M+, but for S2 I am going to switch to Mountain Thane for M+, in large part due to the nerfing of Odyn’s Fury.
OF gave us some incredible immediate burst and also really helped to smooth out the multitarget rotation by giving us 4 stacks of Whirlwind. Now that we don’t use OF anymore, the AoE rotation for Slayer feels more clunky as we have to manually apply the WW buff using WW (the ability). Mountain Thane feels more natural and less like a chore in this regard as Thunder Blast applies WW for us, and it’s a pretty high priority ability so we are pressing it fairly often anyway.
I am going to miss OF a lot this season, it was just so good at giving us burst on demand and made me feel like a god on fights like Ovinax. I will say that after a few days of playing Slayer though, I am getting used to Anger Management and being able to use Bladestorm more often. It’s not quite the same, but also fun in its own way.
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Agreed. That was my way of approaching the switch. And to be honest, so far… the difference IS very palpable when doing big AoE pulls.
Yeah Thane basically just poops all over Slayer in any AoE at the moment.
They buffed all the main rotational abilities by around 40%. Didn’t touch Bladestorm and nerfed Odyn Fury.
Slayer burst can still be competitive even if behind Mountain Thane in sustained situations but the Slayer burst is so neutered at the moment it’s never good anywhere.
Bladestorm and Culling Cyclone in the Slayer tree both need a small buff.
Odyn Fury needs a significant buff.
I still think Unhinged should have some multi-target functionality even if it’s not the full 4 extra targets of normal fury cleave. As this would also help buff slayer more due to the extra casts it gets - and Slayer needs some help.
It does though, it’s able to proc reap the Storm.
Unhinged itself is pretty much a mandatory lock in for every single build anyway I don’t think it needs anything else added to it.
Base Bladestorm? I don’t know about that one.
Culling Cyclone? For sure, they need to revert their previous knee jerk change back to how it released originally which was 20% extra damage as opposed to the 10% it is right now per Bladestorm tick.
I suppose Slayer being the ST option for Fury, and Thane being the better static AoE does allow for more build diversity in being able to actually play multiple different hero talents in various pieces of content. Would be nice to have both Hero Talents be close enough in all forms of content but this is honestly the best we’ll get for people who both Raid and M+ in having the opportunity to play both, even if the option does seem forced based on key/fight type it still adds a little variety as a silver lining.
Honestly the only thing I can really see happening is Odyn’s Fury getting a buff later on since they’ll notice a massive drop in it’s pick rate.
Every class has these things, shouldn’t preclude them from being a tuning knob. My main point here is unhinged is more powerful for Slayer, and Slayer needs help. Sure it sims highest on pure single target 100% patchwerk, but that doesn’t apply to like 95% of the game.
Culling Cyclone might be enough, but honestly Thane’s Ravager cycle is almost as strong as Slayer’s Bladestorm at this point. Your burst spec can’t do the same damage during it’s cooldowns as your non-burst spec lol.
I mentioned this briefly above, but my problem here is this only really applies when looking at 100% patchwerk. When you compare the single target damage of the two builds in their cleave specs they are very close together.
Thane has better AoE, better sustained damage, similar burst, similar single target, and better defensives.
Obviously Slayer burst had a place, even ignoring the dumb raid design, but it’s burst has been so neutered it can’t even really be any better at that while still being worse at all those other things Thane is good at.