Can you please stop designing classes around temporary skills and abilities every expac? It’s kind of awful and feels unrewarding to “give back” your abilities. Legion was cool and kudos for you. But let’s cut this out for shadowlands ya?
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wanna vote on what abilities we’ll be losing so that we can earn it back in SL? i mean, they’ve done for how many xpacs so far?
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The rental abilities are band-aid fixes for busted class designs.
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Yes it’s the poor mans method of class design. This is also known as the “ion concept”
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Remember that as-seen-on-tv bracelet, it was called the “Ion Bracelet” or something like that. It’s like we have the Ion Necklace now.
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Yeah the whole borrowed power thing is getting old. But honestly, borrowed power has been a thing since the start with tier sets.
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Yea sure but come on not like this. Tier set bonuses were not entire new skills nor was class design meant to be AROUND them.
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Yeah I get your point. I’m just saying that it has been a thing from the start in some form or another. Id like to be able to keep the power that I’m given, not have it taken away every expansion. I was really hoping that artifact weapons would be the new talent progression system and be kept going forwards, continuously expanded upon. Not scrapped entirely
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Yea I gotcha. Agreed I was excited about the artifact system. Was hoping it would somehow continue instead of just become obsolete and sitting in my bags as a memento of “old times”
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The only reason I’m ok with the essences being not account wide is because I’m hoping that it’s something we will keep going forwards. We’ve yet to see a reason as to why we are going to get rid of the Heart of Azeroth so far, so I’m holding out hope for that.
Only problem here is how blizz decides to keep the level and essences going forwards for latecomers or alts, which can be quite problematic regardless of how they do it.
But I fear that we are going to just turn in the neck to magni and just have it floating in the heart chamber for the rest of the game after bfa.
what we dont play classes anymore we play systems.
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I think your fear is the most likely scenario. With the covenant system it sounds like it’s rent a skill 3.0
I will say that I’m all for perks and such per expac but the classes are being designed around this rental stuff and that I do not like. In shadowlands I wouldn’t mind some benefits from covenants but I don’t want my class to rely on them to play the spec or class.
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Agreed. The system is just straight up stupid. Literally the worst idea ever.
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With people asking for new talent rows and such… I hate to say it but the rent/borrow power design mentality isn’t going anyway. There will always be a balance vs bloat happening.
I don’t mind it as much BUT having your class then feel like 
when that trait, talent, or whatever that was on your special necklace, weapon, and god knows what else is gone is not a good feeling. It also doesn’t feel good when you have that thing you work on, build up to help your character progression then they get this lame excuse to throw it away with no real pay off.
I didn’t like getting AP in Legion but I kind of grew to like my artifact weapons, and it felt weird when I stopped using it.
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Can we not say tier sets were borrowed power
That’s like saying all gear is borrowed power
Comparing tier sets to Azerite gear, essences and now corruption is like comparing a scratch on your hand to someone who has had their arm ripped off
It depends on what the tier set bonus was. If it was something as simple as increased value from a spell then I wouldn’t call it borrowed power. But if it was something that had the potential to change how you played, then I would call it such. Most tier set bonuses were simply just increased value so it wasn’t always the case.
I’m hoping that the covenant abilities we get, both the utility and class specific ones will be something that we can keep going forwards. I personally don’t mind systems being brought forwards where you might have to go back and get something to increase your power if you skipped it. That seems like a real rpg element despite the inconvenience.
Best example of this I can think right now are Paladins and vision of perfection major.
I just like the change of playstyle every expansion. We always need this rotation so that the game feels like a new one but still the same. Its ok to move on to new systems and play differently and not having bloated action bars.
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How can we though?
If we kept all the stuff we got in legion and bfa, we would have more player power from these things than the base kit by what, 200 percent?
You have to choose.
Do you want valuable items that you have to progress towards regularly that you then have to give up every 2 years, or do you want no character progression past leveling and maybe 1 new talent level addition every 2 years.
For me, the choice is obvious.
I think for anyone who actively enjoys the gameplay, the choice is probably obvious too.
I think the reason its an issue at all is because people don’t think about what the alternative would be.
Look back at WoD, which only had the Legendary ring, which was still absurdly powerful and useless the next expansion.
Basically the epitome of nothing to do outside of raid, and STILL had a huge rental power.
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