Which wasn’t my point. My point was that it is very frustrating to have something drop which someone wants to share and which they can’t because of the current very restrictive personal loot rules. Loot rules that, as many people have pointed out, don’t make a lot of sense.
I am at a bit of a loss as to the reason why the trading thing was limited in the first place (Is there a blue post explaining?). Carry groups are still selling gear even with personal loot. And if guilds were requiring people to turn everything over and have people roll on it anyway as though it was ML, that’s… Tedious as hell, but if they really want to go through all that trouble, sure. Fine.
(Even in the Trial Hell scenario, at least that person get’s 1 piece of loot before being dropped - so that’s better than nothing.)
How does that solve any problems at all?
And my point is that it was equally frustrating when you had master loot and the boss dropped something nobody in your raid could use.
You’re such a baby.
I did not campaign at any point for the removal of personal loot, but unlike you, I am capable of understanding Blizzard’s reasons for removing it.
Reasons that they have explained many times now, but you continue to ignore because you want to blame casuals for everything.
They’ve explicitly said now that they removed it in part because split runs gave high end guilds too big of an advantage in the mythic race, something people like you continually denied because it suited your agenda.
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Right.
so people having a favourite and liking person a or person b they should get a greater share of the loot that was earned by 20 people.
I’ve agreed with you before Aewendil but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about here.
I’ll be honest, i don’t know what you’re talking about here? Do you mean the chance for a very small raid to have something drop they can’t use? Say a hunter bow, when you have no hunters? Because that’s not really a problem if you have at least 1 of each class, which SHOULD be how raids are designed. And those small raids could always use personal loot if it was really a problem for them.
Except the personal loot change didn’t solve this. AT ALL. REAL hardcore guilds just run their split runs around armor type now. Instead of funneling alts to mains, now leather mains run with 15 leather alts and funnel gear.
The only people this REALLY hurt were CASUAL/Hardcore guilds that DON’T have 10 raid worthy alts and now lose gear regularly to bad stats or false ilvl (ie a gem slot is better than 5 ilvls) upgrades. If anything this gave those split running guilds a GREATER gear advantage. Trust me, I have NEVER run a split raid on this guy, and have scrapped FIVE different 390+ items, 2 with sockets, that i would have traded if i could.
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Is that even a sentence? I’ve read it 3 times now and i don’t think it is.
Its how gm/officers think, its not an essay.
Really? As a raid leader, do you want to know how i think? Or did anyways?
370 X item dropped. Everyone who wants it roll. Ok so we have players a, b, and c…
A has a 340, so that’s 30 ilvls, B has a 355, and C has a 370.
Haste is terrible for A though so we’ll give it to B.
OR
Bs been coming out for weeks, and A is brand new, lets give it to B and A can get the next.
It’s really not that hard.
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Oh look a raid leader complaining about 1/20 chance = 1/20 loot.
Inspect me buddy. This didn’t hurt me. This hurts everyone else in my guild i cannot share my fortune with. I’m known as the titanforge king in my guild.
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I’m gonna level, this is a DUMB request to make when we’re only in this situation because they uprooted the MASTER LOOT system instead of thinking of constructive ways to deal with it.
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Not to mention the first 2-4 weeks are when it’s least needed. At that point, IDEALLY what you’re getting is an upgrade. Blizzard still hasn’t managed to make ilvls actually upgrades, especially with rings, but that IS their stated goal after all.
At this point even most titanforges aren’t an upgrade for me in the raid. They would have been week 2.
Nothing wrong with 20 people in a raid and everyone has a 1/20 chance.
There’s also nothing wrong with people who understand team dynamics being able to choose ML instead of PL.
Nobody is arguing that every raid should be ML. We’re arguing for the ability to make the choice. What is so bad about groups that don’t have you in them being allowed to choose a loot system you don’t like?
People like you could choose to raid exclusively PL, and people like me could raid exclusively ML, and neither of us would need to know or care what the other was doing. If you’re pugging, maybe the maximum inconvenience is asking a group leader who didn’t specify up front which system is being used, and finding a different group if it ends up being ML.
There is absolutely no justifiable reason every raid should be required to run PL. That being said, it’s the way the game is, so we can either choose to accept it and move on, or decide that it’s a deal breaker and leave the game. As always, money drives the development, not forum complaints.
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Yeah, no. Because if something dropped that no-one could use it was a shoulder shrug and like, “oh look, those boots again. we get them every week.” No-one was personally disadvantaged. The current system is worse because if I get a nice titanforge drop on personal loot that my guildy desperately needs and I can’t trade it because of the nonsensical personal loot trading rules, then my guildy is personally disadvantaged and disappointed. And I am disappointed because I can’t give it to them. It’s far more annoying than RNG just allocating the same damn pair of boots to the raid every single week.
If they are going to keep PL as the one loot to rule them all then they should re-look at the trading rules and change them to at least enable us to trade items that we can’t use ourselves.
All this nonsense about split runs is just post hoc justification for a stupid rule change. Split runs affected a minuscule proportion of the wow raiding population.
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Yes, that’s what I mean. In a post last week, Blizzard said one of the reasons they did away with master looter was that it made loot table design more difficult. Certain types of loot (e.g. shields, daggers, ranged weapons etc) are only useful for one or two classes and having these on loot tables meant they were almost always wasted since very few raids had more than 1 or 2 players that could use them. So devs were forced to choose between 2 bad options - have these items only drop from 1 boss per tier, meaning that the players who needed them might never see them, or have these items drop from multiple bosses per tier and have that loot sharded the majority of the time.
Now it’s possible in a raid like Uldir to have multiple bosses that drop ranged weapons or shields because only the classes who can use those weapons will see them drop.
REAL hardcore guilds just run their split runs around armor type now. Instead of funneling alts to mains, now leather mains run with 15 leather alts and funnel gear.
It’s still nowhere near as much of an advantage as it used to be because of the trading limitations of personal loot. Master Looter meant that you could trade every single item that dropped in the raid to the 4 or 5 mains that were in it. Under personal loot rules, only gear that is equal or lower ilvl can be traded which makes split running much, much less of an advantage at the beginning of raid tiers especially.
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Err, yes. They were. Everyone who couldn’t equip those boots was disadvantaged when they dropped. The current system may feel worse but it isn’t actually worse, which was the point of my original post.
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And yet they had a massive effect on the speed that content was cleared and the world first race. Much more effect than removing master loot had on anyone else. (Since, again, something which most in this thread refuse to acknowledge which is that personal loot rewards more loot in total than master loot did, - and personal loot enables you to choose loot tailored for a certain role - which are intended to make up for some of the shortcomings).
Personal Loot allows your entire raid to set their loot spec to DPS for when gearing DPS matters most, and then change loot spec to other roles when it’s no longer necessary to gear DPS. That alone is a very powerful tool which goes a long way to make up for not being able to trade loot which is an ilvl upgrade.