Just gonna get to the point… Every single time you guys query the playerbase there are a ton of people begging for the old system to return, and every single time you just tell them to piss off in one way or another. Ion’s QnA earlier is just another example of this…
The old system wasn’t a perfect one, but taking control away from guilds that have been functioning properly for years is somehow better? I’m tired of seeing a 395 ring drop and having someone cringe because it has the wrong stats for them and they can’t trade it because they only have a 390 with a socket, among many other ridiculous cases of loot being wasted because we’re apparently too stupid to use ML.
Enough is enough…dig your heads out of the sand and let us have our raids back please.
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Agreed. I have tons of loot rotting in my bags I’d love to of passed to a DPS
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I have scrapped 4 different 395 items. 2 had sockets
This is horrible.
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While I’m no longer part of any raid scene, my guild in Legion was fairly casual and we found PL to be a much easier thing to contend with. The situations where people were not able to trade loot because it was an ‘upgrade’ did happen but they were few and far between (made more and more infrequent because people would usually just keep said item for in-bag item level anyway).
I’m sure Blizzard has the metrics for how many actual guilds did this and how many still used ML before they made the change - and I’m sure people would be surprised how very few ML guilds there even were anymore after the first couple weeks.
However, I would like to share that many years ago when I was interested in serious progression raiding - I personally dealt with a ‘Trial member’ nightmare scenario where I was brought in and performed admirably in a raid, only to get awarded no loot and 4 weeks later was benched for a returning guild member (a friend of the GM’s no less). Following this I had to trial for another guild, that kept me out of the loop for gear for another 3 weeks, and at this point I was just fed up and just gave up on gearing and the following raid tier entirely. (Cataclysm - Bastion of Twilight; It wasn’t until Dragon Soul that I even attempted to raid again)
If this change to loot accomplishes nothing else but keeping players from going through what I did… I can’t help but see the merits. A handful of loot items wasted doesn’t have that same level of impact.
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That’s a problem with the crappy guild you joined…not the system. I have never once joined a guild and not been eligible for loot on a raid I performed well in, regardless of the method of distribution. The only times I had to “wait” were when DKP or other such systems were enforced and even then it was just for specific items.
I want to sympathize with the people who got burned but as someone who’s been raiding since AQ40/BWL…I’ve never been subjected to these abuse cases. Master loot was always handled in a way that was fair for all players involved in a boss kill…anything less and I would have quit those guilds.
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You are going to have to find some negatives that carry water and are directly about Master Loot being unavailable, the current complaints tend to be along the same two lines:
-Can’t Trade the Lootz!: They will adjust the trade system before returning Master Loot, and probably won’t adjust the trade system because:
-‘395 isn’t an upgrade on 390!’: This is where Blizz will probably still try to make changes, either pushing Main stat harder or other changes.
They could probably do something easy like having a minor bonus from average item level that would be adjustable tier to tier, i.e. at 395 iLevel in Uldir=3% bonus dmg/healing/armor, dump that when S2 starts and make swap it to 425 ILevel in S2.
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These situations -did- happen though. And they directly impacted people’s experiences in raids, and Blizzard has come in and changed how loot is distributed to prevent it from happening.
And yes, I agree that the item level swapping is an unforeseen consequence. But let’s instead think of constructive ways of dealing with that instead of just uprooting the forced PL entirely.
Just off the top of my head, how about letting people trade loot without the restriction at all the first 2-4 weeks after a raid’s release? A sort of grace period for loot trading in that window where every item will be an item level upgrade, but removed at some scheduled time.
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And conversely the situation where you get a drop and can’t trade it to a team member who desperately needs it also happens and it also directly negatively impacts people’s experiences in raids. So how is one worse than the other?
I don’t think you understand how truly soul sucking it is to watch loot that you need be sharded week after week while all you get is artifact power. It’s demoralising.
If Blizzard don’t want to reinstate master looter, then they should at the very least change the rules around when personal loot can be traded. The current rules hurt raiders as much as the master loot did.*
- Personally, in my decade+ raiding in wow, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I saw master looter abused. It happened to me maybe once in my entire raiding career and I’ve been raiding in every raid since Karazhan so that’s quite a while.
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And that’s an excuse to take out the entire option for the guilds that were able to act like adults? Loot distribution problems were guild problems. They can and did break up when it got out of hand.
I’ve scrapped quite a bit of gear just off the first four bosses of Mythic (one of which we’ve killed all of twice), gear which could’ve gone to our up and comers or even just people who didn’t have something fantastic in that slot. And I don’t know if you’ve even looked at the Mythic Uldir bosses, but every single one of them past Taloc has some manner of DPS check, critical burst phase, or soft enrage. When you were raiding, did you ever have a 1% or 0% wipe on a progression boss? Because we have, and those pieces would have been the difference.
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I am seeing more and more of this topic. I mentioned it months ago.
PL has always been in the game. ML was removed.
I don’t care about the sob stories about “i didn’t get the loot i wanted in ML”. So tired of that one time, or this one time, or this raider I knew. You always had a choice in systems. ML was better for progression raid teams and that’s why it was more common. Combined with EPGP systems and it was pretty fair.
Also, I am one of the many who never experienced any negative effects of ML. I have seen people cry when they don’t get what they want.
Its better than been pressured into giving away items because jimmy has 2 piece tier already and the guild wants jimmy to get all loots.
Not trying to suggest that the current system is superior, just getting tired of people discounting the people that ML impacted in a negative light.
Suggest an alternative that benefits both groups: The ones who are tired of wasting gear by not being able to trade it because of the item level restriction, and The ones who got screwed over by guilds/groups that abused the ML system for their own ends.
If anything else, I’m of the mind that the -real- reason that Blizzard changed this was because they had to invest too many customer support hours into evaluating claims of loot shenanigans, and its essentially a $$$ issue at the end of the day.
If you’re scrapping your highest ilvl gear then you’re just making it worse for yourself and the problem is mostly self inflicted. Or are you bending the truth a lil bit maybe?
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Loot got sharded when ML was a thing too. More so than it is today. As Blizzard have repeatedly pointed out, ML made some items (shields, ranged weapons, daggers etc) basically useless loot whenever they dropped a 2nd time. You’re getting more and better loot with PL than you are with ML, the only people worse off are people who were running split raids to funnel gear.
How about this suggestion: Allow the raid leader to select either PL or ML, and have that choice visible to everyone in the raid so people can decide they accept the loot distribution before they kill any bosses or opt out if it’s not to their liking.
People who don’t like ML don’t have to use it or join raids using it, and people who don’t like PL don’t have to use it or join raids using it.
Sounds perfect.
Except it wasn’t perfect because Master Loot was a bad system for more reasons than just this.
- Specialised loot going to waste
- Split runs giving hardcore teams a huge advantage
You “waste” less loot with the new PL system than you ever did before. The only people inconvenienced by it are those who geared their mains super quick via split runs.
Nobody was required to use it. If you don’t understand why ML is better, you could always choose PL. That choice has now been removed.
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I’m not. I’ve gotten three +5 warforges of stuff I already had and wanted to trade to people that would’ve gotten 30+ ilvl from it, a ring with mediocre secondaries (later replaced by the same ring with a socket), and a trinket for a spec I don’t even raid with (which I at least kept around to insulate from it happening again).
So run PL for split runs. Problem solved. Let the guilds capable of acting like adults do their own thing with the other loot option people like you got removed out of spite because you ran with greedy people (or worse, people you personally disagreed with whose reasoning ).