If it will INCONVENINCE the other DW agi classes by all means loll I guess i can take a transmog or some sort of way to appear as if holding 1 handers. But even then, i think fixing and enhancing the flavor of the class would be just as simple for them.
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This has nothing to do with whether we can DW, though, let alone whether we limit the option unnecessarily to requiring we acquire additional weapons.
Youâd consider a less convenient / more wasteful option for all (yes, for Hunters, too) just out of spite for other DW Agility classes?
Or is this just sarcasm? Again, my interest here is in Hunters. Requiring separate weapons to be allowed the visuals (or potential gameplay) of DW, above all else, hurts Hunters. Why would you not simply broaden appearance optionality and have weapon type effects, AA speeds and apportioned proc rates (to the same total ppm) go off weapon appearance instead of the item under the hood?
Well Hunter in the wow Time line of expansions is one of the original 1h Agi DW classes, before some of the CURRENT agi DW classes showed up. So in my eyes if they add one more 1 hander per raid/loot it will be fair/easier than what you mentioned. again speaking that we used to be able to. So now what all of sudden we forgot how to use 1H lol⌠its just silly.
as for the appearance broadening consider this, they have not yet added ONE ranged weapon enchat or something that can make Ranged glow, or wtvr something small at least. so forget about them changing the animations.
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Animations can already change between 2H and DW variants. This does not need to be added. Itâs literally already in the game. Itâs been in the game since Vanilla.
???
We didnât forget how to auto-attack with 1Hs if we so desired, to be fair; we simply forgot how to . We just forgot how to DW. We also didnât use to use our offhand for anything except for melee weapons⌠and could reload our gun simultaneously with swinging swords, had a deadzone in which we could use neither ranged nor melee weapons, and could teleport weapons between our backs/scabbards and our hands.
What we have now is simply because it better fits the limited use case of melee now: Survival, and nothing else. No, in itself, it doesnât make sense that we canât physically DW. But, itâs probably better to set that boundary than trap players with the alternative or reduce aesthetic quality among what we do have.
Donât monks already have this issue? They seem fine. Why would one more class doing the same thing make it much worse?
And out of curiosity since we are discussing itemization, where are the rare 2h axes and swords with agi?
DW also opens up enchant combo options too that transmog doesnât. For me the transmog option just doesnât feel good. No one else deals with that issue. At what point do we all just get generic gear and itâs all transmog? Slippery slope.
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This is something I seen already like 10 years ago. When they started to make fights needing you to run around allot. Try playing a caster class like Warlock or Mage. 10 years ago in MoP they gave the Mage that " Rune of Power" Talent which was also the best talent and a must pick. It requires you to stand still for its duration to increase damage. Nice idea, in a game where you design every raid boss in a way that forces you to keep moving around, Blizzard!
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Long and many separate and reversible decisions after freedom of build choices beyond basic gameplay and visual customization not being specific to unchangeable from particular drops / drop types.
Consider Frost DKs, for instance. The DW and 2H Frost have to play so similarly largely because access to the full slew of Frost options would otherwise require maintaining three times the number of weapons, 2 of them unique from other specs (up from, say, SVâs 1).
We can already transmog a weapon to be anywhere from 2 to 12 ft long, change its type, change its apparent enchant, and run around in skimpy mummy cosplays or chain-link bikinis or the like despite being plate-wearing tanks, or even split a 2H into paired DW artifact weapons or a main and offhand weapon together into a 2H AW, but âno matter how much good it would soâ having separate and unfettered control over which 1H weapons to turn them into crosses some unique line?
Good point you brought up Dks for how long was the 2H spec complete Trash lol and only in DF was it worth anything lol so they should have just gutted that out and left them DW.
As for everything being transmogable thats not the game design. 2 H vs DW 1H should not be a cosmetic but a class fantasy to adhere to the lore. You can change appearance to wtvr you want but 2 H vs DW should be a viable option for those who want to play DW. thats it thats all.
IF you have a problem that you need to obtain 1 more weapon+enchant then i dont know why we even play the game.
I think so, yes. You mention artifact weapons, and those are very specific items. That they convert between DW 1H and 2H isnât about transmog, thatâs about magical artifact conversion.
We all know this is a video game, and âmade upâ but at the same time, it would be preferable to not completely lose immersion. It is already bad enough that the godawful ugly polearm my surv hunter uses can be turned into a shining 2H sword of grace and beauty, but to then just say "welp, this polearm is magically 2 1H axes IMO just goes too far.
The game designers historically IMO have simply âmissedâ with most of their weapon designs. Beyond the aesthetic of ridiculously huge comical stuff, and things that obviously wouldnât even be sharp or useful, thereâs also the galling âbad resolutionâ issues of most weapon transmogs. Even seeing this on the trading post is what takes it to the absurd levels (âhey intern, grab something from the archives, donât care what, as long as itâs brown, itâs going on the trading postâ). I frankly wish transmog was MORE limited, and there were better designs out there.
As it is now, what we âwearâ is purely for stat-benefit, and how we look is some artificial construct based on past triumphs. Weapons already go too far with the variety of weapon types you can swap between, because itâs also making the devs lazy with respect to new item generation and design. If Iâm now swapping between 2h and 1h randomly I might as well be playing a real, modern human thatâs just mentally jacked into a video game and playing, conceptually.
I hate that we are already this close to being purely meta, I donât want to go all the way. Like I said, at some point, we are simply getting generic blank slate virtual armor and weapons, and simply picking the look off of some âwarehouseâ of options. Itâs fortnite with RPG aspects. MEH.
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Sure I guess option 2 is better if you now think itâs such a big issue to find two weapons instead of one. With the games current ease of gear I just canât see the issue. And as have been pointed out: If itâs such a issue or if you have bad luck then go with the 2h option? Anything other than that is by your choice and canât be argued as a negative.
Now what interests me more is why Blizzard hasnât implemented it already. Itâs been heavily requested since Legion! I can only assume itâs from a lack of resources or because itâs not easy.
Your option #2 might seem easy but I would argue that itâs probably a completely other beast when it comes to the code, compared to #1.
Option 2 means they need to create a whole lot of new code and almost a new sub system to transmog. We all know what a hassle it was for them to let druids/paladins transmog their artifact weapons after Legion.
Option 1 is pretty much âjustâ tweak the code of our abilities and adjust the balancing around the two options. For example weapons need to scale differently depending on weapon type and need to work with 1h (currently now itâs just 2h). All hunters in game can use almost all different weapons and we technically can dual-wield already. We just canât use our rotation then.
See my point? I would take any solution that letâs me dual-wield SV hunter but for the feasibility of our request I think itâs important that we advocate a option that Blizzard actually can implement with as little effort as possible.
That is why I personally would prefer if they just accept that we would like to play like Rexxar (you know, the lore character SV is supposedly based upon? Our spec trees background evenâŚ) and would rework the few abilities that we have that require 2h weapons. Abilities are based off of AP as far as I know, not the old system of weapon dmg etc. And certain niche issues like the CDR from auto attacks can be solved.
It is high time Blizzard, please just enable dual-wield for SV hunters. The way it should have been since Legion!
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Exactly, too much was designed around 2H in Legion and after they cleaned house nobody bothered to revise SV hunters.
I think if Blizz takes this under real consideration, because im sure they know. Or the community hunter person must know.
Its in our interest as well for Blizz to have the simplest way of implementing DW, and quite frank updating wording of spells and their math + the swing gcd of the weapons is much easier than anything else. Items are plentiful if your issue is faring items thenâŚlol i dont know what to tell ya.
It will over be a very positive lore/flavor advancing change, community will be happy and they will see Blizz keeps an eye all around not just talent trees and passives lol
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If they gave surivial dual weilding with the chance to use warglaives im in and staying surivial instead of going monk.
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Whatâs really amusing is that we can ALREADY equip 2 1H weapons. Our attacks simply arenât utilizing them properly. I just put 2 1H axes on, and am hitting the training dummies in Val. I can even get white generic damage from using both of them individually. But all of our special attacks require a 2H in surv spec. Whatever item Iâm wearing that does the âScorching Tormentâ effect (ring, trinket, dunno?) also hits too.
To allow us to DW is nothing more than balancing and modifying the specials we have to utilize them effectively. Thereâs nothing more complicated to it.
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Then what of weapon types? Should a body-length 30 kg great sword be identical to a small but nonetheless âtwo-handedâ axe if a 3 ft, 8 kg hammer wielded with one hand is not to be identical to a 3 ft, 8 kg hammer wielded with two hands?
Again, should we have Protection Warriors who, by lore, live or die by the strength of their armor⌠running around seemingly without any?
Should Death Knights be able to wear golden armor radiating holy light?
Again, that seems an extremely strange hill to die on, especially when doing so just to force more gear grind.
To permit you to use traded or crafted weapons, yes. To make it a generally-accessible option, no. Itâd then require adjusting our loot tables.
Moreover, if you make DW on par with 2H pre-enchants, then it becomes the stronger option with enchants, for the simple fact of having twice as many of them. At that point, unless you take those larger steps, you then have a spec who uniquely cannot even loot weapons of the same type as its BiS.
So, youâve got significant Hunter-specific changes that slow typical gearing for SV, or you have significant changes useful to all specs that can both 2H and DW.
Let me be clear here: I would prefer that plate has to look like plate, swords like swords, etc., so long as those differences matter, but also therefore that a Warrior should be allowed to play more fragilely but nimbly in mail (or, hell, even Agility-and-Intellect-bearing Cloth, as per Blademasters), Hunters in leather, etc., and Mages take on real armor if theyâre willing to take on the penalties commensurate to it, even if those arenât going to be perfectly competitive options. But weâre already in a land where we Plate-tank in bikinis and beat enemies to death with foam mallets and where there are no differences between swords, axes, maces, spears, guns, bows, xbows, etc. beyond just who is arbitrarily prevented from using what. Any time for arbitrarily limiting the last bit (like Hunters being disallowed from using maces or only certain 1Hs being transmoggable onto 2Hs, etc.), has long since passed.
If they give Survival Dual Wield will the hunter have to toss one of his weapons to their pet in order to fire that little crossbow? Because if that is the case, sign me up. They already have knife wielding crabs. I want a rodent with an axe.
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This has been one of my arguments since Legion! Itâs like⌠they are literally one step away from having it implemented and considering how many who wants it I am shocked they havenât taken that last step yet.
Towards the end of Shadowlands when we had that tier set who made us use Bombs for 90% of our damage and the single other ability was KC to fish for bomb resets I actually played with a bow or dual-wield. Since those abilities doesnât require a 2h weapon I was barely doing less damage while I could be ranged (I then picked arcane shot and steady shot for fillers) or dual-wield melee. The amount of people whispering me asking about it and wondering if ranged SV was back etc was quite funny.
TL:DR we can already dual-wield, we can already use most weapons. Please just take the last step and fullfill so many SV hunters wish, and give us dual-wield by changing the few key abilities, so they donât require 2h weapons.
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Joking aside I can remember back in Vanilla running around Org dual wielding Bone Slicing Hatchets with a Crusader Enchant using a jank Survival Build that focused on Improved Wingclip procs and using my pet as a dot in duels. I was over-geared and it was a fun change of pace.
Dual Wielding were stat sticks that eventually âmathedâ out of in favor of 2 Handed Stat Sticks + Major Agility Enchants. In PvP, popping Deterrence and Raptor Striking a Rogue to death could only be accomplished with a 2 Hander (Rhok/Lok). Dual Wielding just didnât hit hard but but it hit faster (increased procs).
I would like to see Dual Wielding in the current game but only if we do not get caught in the cycle that Fury Warriors had to fight with Single Minded Fury vs Titanâs Grip. I also donât want to fall into that weird spot where we have 1 Mythic Raid quality weapon and one pre-cap Quest Reward Green quality weapon because RNG just sucks.
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Add Frost DK and WW Monk to this list as well.
At this point, I really could care less for dual wielding. Iâd rather they not break a bunch of stuff trying to implement it as well as have a bunch of wasted talent points just to enable it either.
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I love my spear but I wouldnât mind rocking dual axes either.
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In a perfect world weâd be able to choose/switch between the two. I would primarily go dual-wield and switch between swords and axes but some transmogs just feel good with a few of the better 2h weapons. I really think they need to change the requirement for the few abilities that specifically require 2h weapons.
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