For a long period of time there was personal loot, bad luck protection, and bonus rolls. In addition to this there was the weekly pvp and pve chests.
This current loot system is the worst of them all. This all started when people were complaining there was not enough content halfway through Battle for Azeroth expansion. Blizzards solution to this complaint was to make gear “more meaningful to obtain” by giving us less ways to get it, which in turn would keep us busy longer.
In Shadowlands they implemented the Greatvault system which was terrible making you choose between pvp and pve gear from your weekly activities. In addition to this they removed bonus roll tokens that would give you a second chance to roll on any specific boss, making targeted gearing easier. They also had personal loot and bad luck protection. Personal loot had your own personal rng and you were guaranteed a piece of loot after about 3 bosses without loot.
Now you can go an entire raid and not get a single piece of loot and other people walk out with 3-4 pieces of loot. In no way is this fair, and i am really starting to lose interest in this game after putting lots of time and effort to receive NOTHING.
IM sure some people will say thats just RNG man, but this rng was made this way intentionally and it would be nice to have a little balance.
I don’t like the current roll system as it inherently creates conflict with the other people in your group. It’s not just about having good or bad luck, part of that is now in the hands of other people depending on if they choose to roll or not.
And too many people impulsively roll need on anything that they can need on, even if they don’t actually need it. Then they try to act like the loot Santa Clause afterward trying to decide who to gift it to. There have been multiple times when I lost a roll to one person, only to have them turn around and “generously” give it to someone who rolled lower than I did. That’s just wrong.
This is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the old system. There was one loot drop for every 5 players. So in a group of 20, the rolls were hidden, but all 20 people would roll, and the top 4 rolls would receive an item, chosen at random from the loot table. In the current system, the math is basically the same, except that players are allowed to choose not to roll, so it’s actually slightly in our favor.
Why is it wrong? The person who won the loot now owns it, and is free to do with it whatever they want. If they choose to pass it to the next highest roll, that’s their decision. If they decide to give it to their friend, also their choice. If they give it to someone because they like their transmog, it’s theirs to do with what they want.
Everyone will be a whole lot happier if they would stop putting their hands in other people’s pockets. You get to roll on loot. If you win, congrats. If you lose, the loot doesn’t belong to you, it belongs to the winner. Everyone needs to stop trying to decide who the loot “should” go to. It should go to the person with the highest roll.
If I’m on a recently leveled alt I will sometimes whisper the winner if it looks like they don’t need the item and ask if they’re willing to trade. Sometimes they trade it and sometimes they don’t. If they don’t want to, I just tell them grats and move on with my life. They don’t owe it to me just because I want it.
It sounds like you’re talking about rolls in the context of a pug group. I’m not claiming that anyone is violating any rules, only that they are being a jerk when they do it. Sure, I can roll on loot that I don’t need also, and even disenchant it in front of everyone if I want to. Not breaking any rules, even if it means I’m screwing over someone who would have got a 30 ilvl upgrade in that slot.
But in an organized group, there can be consequences, even if it’s merely deciding not to play with that person anymore.
Bottom line is that it’s not about anyone doing anything “wrong”, it’s about the potential to create drama between players that simply doesn’t need to exist. If it’s a pug, then it might not matter because you’ll probably never see those people again. But this kind of stuff can and does tear guilds apart.
Nope, cant do that anymore, blizzard needs to keep their player engagement metric up as much as possible which means getting you to log in as much as they can, so you will be stuck with the great vault weekly scratcher card which cost us, raid loot drops and decreased M+ drops all for a weekly drop.
Told people this was gonna be the case, everyone railed against me, turns out i was right…again.
I’ve cleared raid on normal on two characters, done LFR on 4 characters. Have gotten zero raid drops.
My warlock, which was my intended main, cleared normal and LFR, all 8 m0’s, and 6 keys before it recieved a SINGLE item.
That is quite literally 10+ hours of content this season before i saw an upgrade. And then my warrior gained more than 26 ilvl in less than 8hrs of gameplay…
The point is, why are you allowing it to create drama? There is no difference between the old system and the new except that people can now choose to roll or not and you see the result. How do you explain being so upset that someone chose to roll that you want it to go back to everyone rolling all the time by default? Do you understand this position has rational foundation?
If it does then it’s not a very good guild. The whole point of a guild raid is a team working together. If they’re getting so caught up in individual loot drops that they can’t see that everyone benefits from everyone advancing then it may as well be a pug.
Sorry that you got confused. You mistook my disapproval of player behavior to indicate an apparent rule violation. Yes, “wrong” can be interpreted multiple ways, hence the quotes in my reply, as I was referencing your response at that point, not my previous post.
If you’re still confused, feel free to iterate more about what you don’t understand.
People are people. Any system that only works properly when everyone makes a smart choice is doomed to fail.
Even if personal loot resulted in slightly less loot, I’d still happily take that over the current system. Again, it doesn’t matter to whatever extent it’s similar. It’s the perception of competing against your fellow raiders, reinforced by the public rolls, that creates the drama. That simply did not happen with personal loot.
I’m sorry you think it’s unambiguous to say that something is wrong and not wrong.
No, I took it as unwarranted disapproval. Who are you to decide what someone else does with the loot they’ve won?
The psychology behind this is mind boggling to me. You prefer a system where loot acquisition is slightly slower for everyone because you don’t like seeing someone push a need roll manually instead of having it pushed for them automatically. Absolutely wild…
Because I was referencing what I considered to be bad behavior, not a rule violation. It’s sad that there is literally AI now that can understand this distinction better than you seem to be able to.
As I clearly mentioned, I can’t control what people do with loot that they win but I can control who I play this game with. If I lose a roll, so be it. But I expect the person who wins to use the item, not roll on stuff just to give it away. If they don’t actually need it, then they shouldn’t roll.
And again, I’m talking from the perspective of a guild group, not some random pug. I understand that most pugs are a merciless free-for-all where everyone is going to click the need button any time it’s available to them.
As clarified in my earlier post, both interpretations of “wrong” are inapplicable here, so I’m not sure why you think quibbling with me about a “rule violation” that I never mentioned is relevant. To be as precise as possible, it is neither a rule violation nor bad behavior for someone to give their own loot, that they won, to someone else.
Maybe you should be very certain your understanding is correct before you start getting snarky about comprehension.
Then obviously not “so be it”. What business is it of yours what someone does with their own loot?
Does your guild group just do a straight up free roll for everything? In an organized group there should be some rules and guidelines for people to follow with regards to loot. Why would a guild group not try to distribute loot in the way that furthers the progress for everyone? If this is an issue in a guild raid, the problem is with a lack of leadership, not a loot system.
I think you are actually fundamentally wrong here with how the new system is screwing us over.
With the old system 5 players would win the “hidden” roll then a piece of loot for their spec off the particular boss would drop in the bags for them. The system worked because on each boss there was only 5 winners - 5 people won - everyone rolled ONCE and they got loot. Next boss 5 people out of the group won and they got loot. There was even a little bad luck protection here.
In the new system each roll is a NEW ROLL and mutually exclusive. So each time a piece of loot drops you have to roll against others again which is why some people get multiple drops from the same boss. So two pieces of gear drops for me - I have to roll against the other say 15 people twice to try to get the loot and each time I roll its a new mutually exclusive roll! If all plate drops off a boss and I’m a paladin I can roll on all the pieces and each are mutually exclusive. I can win all and walk away with all the loot. This can happen, couldn’t before, and why everyone now feels icky about this new system.
Assuming a group with 25 unsaved players, yes, all this is correct.
Why are you assuming 60% of the raid is all the same armor type?
In the old system, the players’ loot roll happened first, and the 5 winners then had a hidden roll to determine the loot. In the new system, the determination roll happens first, and each piece of loot excludes people who can’t equip the item. Then the players’ loot roll happens. The two loot rolls combine together in a different order, but are functionally identical. Yes, sometimes a player may win 2 items, but that is balanced by the fact that sometimes that player is you. Yes, a raid with an abnormal balancing of armor types will have some tighter competition or some unused loot, but in the old system, there was an abnormal weighting of necks, rings, and cloaks, so it is still roughly equivalent, with a slight advantage overall to the group loot system.
seems like alot of people feel like it should be. The only people who would fight a change like this is someone who wants to remain perpetually ahead of everyone.
Im guessing you get into any content instantly or pay people to carry you, and you like to stay ahead of people. Or maybe you are just a negative person with nothing of substance to bring to the conversation, but you still wanted to feel heard?
just give us dinars every raid tier.
Make it cost 3 dinars for standard pieces and 4 for weapons and trinkets.
Make every item start at LFR item level and require the same amount of crests to upgrade them all the way to whatever level they can be up to in that season
Keep all the other systems as they are.
Problem solved.
The acquisition rate of the dinars + the cost of the items should prevent this system from interfering with RWF each season and remove some of the “this stupid thing never drops!” crap we all deal with every season.
Also for the love of the light PLEASE also make the weekly quests that we occasionally get (5 timewalking dungeons or 4 mythics) that give us raid loot have some kind of “memory” so they STOP dropping the same stupid item each time you complete the quest.
Getting the same pair of bracers 4 quests in a row should NOT be possible nor should it be happening so often that it doesn’t even seem like TRUE rng
You haven’t yet completed 80% of heroic once, let alone three times. You have 3 pieces of tier, one of them heroic, and 2 pieces of non tier normal raid drops.
Yes, there is a 20% base chance of loot, but this needs to be multiplied by the drop rate of items you can equip, then further multiplied by the drop rate of items that you would roll on from that pool. This results in an upgrade loot chance far lower than 20% per boss. The more gear you have from other sources, like your crafted staff, the lower your raid loot upgrade chance goes.
In the previous system, this much lower upgrade loot chance was the same, but instead of getting nothing, you would receive duplicate or non upgrade loot, often a neck, cloak, or ring, that was effectively vendor trash.
Gearing is too easy/fast and that after next week you will be just waiting on vault rewards and remaining crafted slots. This season is the most free loot has been in a long time. Crafted pieces only taking 60 gilded, gilded dropping in abundance starting at 7 keys, and 10s being a joke all would lead me to say this is by far the easiest it has been to gear a character. Delves also reward heroic track. It’s all very easily accessible.
If the argument is that there are a few targeted pieces you are still not able to get, cool… we have like 5 or 6 months left. Chase pieces are a good thing.