Can we get a destruction warlock rework?

What the title says.

I’ve been dabbling in frost mage recently and I’ve come to realize just how bad the destruction warlock skill tree and the decisions it forces you to make are. For those who don’t play frost here is what you’re missing out on.

Take AoE for example. The current frost single target build gets blizzard baseline, gets mandatory frozen orb to grab flurry and then has multiple single target skills that naturally cleave on top.
Meanwhile destro has no baseline AoE, havoc is a mandatory skill point and picking any amount of AoE through rain of fire takes away from your single target and lands you in a position where you have havoc for two target cleave, rain of fire for high target counts and nothing for situations in between those or when havoc is on cooldown because rain of fire won’t deal enough damage to be worth casting (plus it requires the enemies to stay completely still for extended periods of time or you waste a huge amount of soul shards).

Next, if you look at various active abilities in the destruction skill tree:
-Channel Demonfire, I personally like it but mostly I’ve heard other warlocks complain about it, good for them because it will likely become irrelevant again when we lose the current tier set and will probably revert to soulfire at the default.
-Soulfire? I’ve only ever heard negative feedback about this skill. Very long cast time that breaks the flow of the rotation and the immolate application lines up strangely with the duration of immolate making it so you can’t really maintain immolate on a single target using only soulfire but you also don’t have enough downtime to justify casting immolate manually either.
-Shadowburn. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen anyone actually use it. Questionably useful on single target, hard to use optimally on AoE.
-Dimensional Rift, the star of next tier’s set. Currently a dead talent in PvE (I heard it’s good in PvP but I wouldn’t know) is gonna be under two layers of RNG with next tier set as the extra charge generation with immolate is random and so is the type of rift you open, only one of which will deal any AoE at all. Destruction is billed as the chaotic, random spec but this is just bad design that punishes you for bad luck by stripping away some of what little AoE you have.

Most skill picks are just the lesser of two evils for the current patch and most of these skills have little to no value in AoE.

Next let’s look at skills used in the current best single target frost mage:
-Glacial Spike, regular part of the rotation, very satisfying capstone skill with slow cast but high damage that also freezes the target. Essentially frost Chaos Bolt, the highlight of the rotation.
-Ray of Frost, 1 min CD very high damage skill that also gives you some downtime in an otherwise fairly fast and busy spec. Also applies an outrageous slow that while not always useful is very funny. I could see this one being a love it or hate it situation on account of its long channel.
-Comet Storm, another AoE currently also picked as part of the single target build, quickly drops 7 comets on your target. Instant cast, just straight damage.

Aside from spread two target cleave, there’s very little that frost can’t do as well or better than destro with less investment and far, far better versatility. They have simpler, less finicky skills that behave exactly how you expect them to.

To add insult to injury, in next patch Destro is also losing madness of the azj’aqir, removing one of the few high points of the rotation: very fast chaos bolt dumping. It’s being replaced by a flat damage increase which might as well just be baked into the skills it affects. Much like demonology this expansion, instead of balancing the problem talents they just remove them and replace them with boring old % damage increase.

All in all, while I agree different classes and spec should have different strengths and weaknesses the discrepancy between some of them is staggering.
Destruction is currently crippled by barely functional AoE that requires heavy investments, RNG, and unfun and often clunky talent choices that add little of value to a rotation that is very static.

The spec needs a rework.

PS: Bracing for the comments that say warlocks get too much attention from the devs already because of pet customization and the Darkmoon Faire questline. We may be getting non-combat stuff aplenty, maybe too much, but combat-wise demonology has been getting all the attention and it has been mostly negative, stripping away the fun talents in the name of balance which has done nothing as it’s still a top 3 single target spec.

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Anyone who says that isn’t really worth listening to, anyway, considering certain other classes coughhuntercough gets this on a per expansion, sometimes even per patch basis, while warlocks get pet customization once in a blue moon.

Yes, Destro is extremely all or nothing, which is rather annoying. Why Rain of Fire is a talent instead of baseline I’ll never know.

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The worst part is that even if it were baseline, without the associated talent upgrades it’s extremely underwhelming for the soul shard cost and like any other AoE that deals its damage over time mechanics will rarely let you keep enemies in one place long enough to make full use of it; still I’d rather have that than nothing.

It’s all 3 specs and the class tree. Demo was pretty solid at the beginning of the expac but they’ve turned it into slurry. No one can say what is happening in the hallowed halls of Blizzard’s Warlock dev team but it’s resulted in an all time low in class design.

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Warlocks, and I mean, every spec, feels like crap. I switched to fire mage and I was like, omfg, how does this feel this good?

They hate us. Why else would they make playing one feel like slow torture . . .

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My expectations are so low right now.

Most I can hope for are some numerical buffs that just push us into goodness. Most signs I’ve seen so far point to another demo favored tier and we’ve had too many of those over the last several years. Maybe make drift hit even harder and make the tier set cleave effect even higher than 25%, or make havoc and/or rain of fire hit much harder. Our AoE profile because of Inferno/Cata and no baseline RoF is just trash.

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All 3 specs feel second class to mage, spriest, and boomchicken

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Having key aspects of every build taken away just to be implemented into a talent tree’s the name of the game in destro. Come start of the expac when i saw RoF and conflag in the talent tree is when i went “Yap, it’s gonna be one o’ those expansions”

Our ‘active’ talent choices seem to be clashing with destro’s perceived playstyle (unless ofc you bake in a set-piece bonus like demonfire just recently). But quite honestly here’s my two cents:

-Channel Demonfire: Make it so after a short cast time it spawns an orb that then lingers on the spot and proceeds to perform what the spell says it does (change the name i guess since it won’t be channeled anymore ?!). Still it’s lack of interaction with anything regarding soul shards makes it hard to balance.

-Dimensional Rift: Swap this skill’s spot with Soulfire; the fact this is made to compete against master of chaos is sad to me beyond belief + make a talent underneath it that upgrade it further (maybe extra charges)

-Soul fire: Swapped from above make it a nuke that’ll consume all shards to deal massive single target damage (make the damage per shard more efficient than Chaos Bolt perhaps and give it a cooldown)

-Shadowburn: Return it to it’s MoP glory days where it rewards the players for weaving havoc between low Hp enemies and the main target nuke.

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the price of having Ritual of Summoning and Healthstones /s

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lol yea good trade off

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I would love Nukefire actually
and yeah the loss of Master of Chaos is…less than ideal. Losing it adds even more RNG to your damage on top what Dimensional Rift’s random rifts already introduces. Doesn’t help that I’m not a huge fan of the skill to begin with, to me it feels disconnected from the rest of the spec in a way I can’t really explain.

I’ve been saying this for years. Destro has been the same fundamentally forever. I’d love to see them rework the spec into something fresh and new.

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Yes right after affliction, and rework the class tree way you are at it.

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There is a talent tree bug, if you keep swapping between cata and RoF, you get to use both. Cata doesn’t go away.
And my friend it is FUN. But we cannot have fun. It shouldn’t be the way.

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I’d like to also point out, aside from the design issues discussed here, heading into 10.2…our tier set is currently extremely under-tuned. Blizzard has not mentioned it at all and just released likely one of the last PTR patches with a FULL REWORK for Markmenship Hunters terrible tier set.

Here is a sim: https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3GMqEeRsYRLmHpuRYEUbrj

(run by Kalamazi) comparing the new tier with the best build for it in single target at normal raid iLVL upgrades on the tier pieces only VS. the current tier’s Chaos Incarnate raid built with 10.1 tier at current max 447s. This is a overall ilvl increase of about 3-4 item levels PLUS new tier from 10.2.

It’s 2.8% ahead…that’s laughable. And it depends on gear and stats. For myself, I was simming and got only a 2.1% increase. In AoE, Chaos Incarnate easily destroys Rift, making the set entirely useless in M+ despite the aoe clause being added to the 2-set.

There are currently specs with tier sets sitting at 14-17% increases in that same range. We are at 2.8%. Aff is around 8% and Demo at 10%.

I’m just hoping for a PTR patch this week that addresses this cause Destro will not be fun to play at all in 10.2 if this goes live.

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yea, I am actually surprised they haven’t done more tuning to make the tier hit harder single target, let alone the underwhelming cleave effect.

I have zero expectation on Destruction’s future changes because Destruction hasn’t receive any meaningful and essential changes ever since 7.3.5 except the Rain of Chaos thing. And even that will be nerfed to the ground in 10.2.

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Yeah it’s bad. I personally feel they should merge the pyrogenics and inferno talents. Let all of us take Cataclysm and on top of that Cataclysm should have a CD reset built in to with a 50% damage proc lol? One can only wish. Base it whatever you want, Immolate ticks etc since they seem to like that.

Can you imagine being able to pop off Cataclysms constantly like a boss? Hell even let us burn a soul shard to get a free instant one.

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Could be worse… could be an Ele shaman

ele sham is in a better spot than destro for sure