Can we fix Survival Please?

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 4:03am

Ghorak:

The thing is, you haven’t argued your opinion. You’ve made claims, referencing “facts” of history. You’ve argued, using our class’ historical design as your basis of support. The main problem when you say you’ve used our logic against us is that, when you make your arguments, you ignore the very fundamental design of the class, as it was initially realised back in Vanilla(that being the actual core toolkit). None of us have ever argued that there weren’t talents within the SV category, in Vanilla, which focused on the melee-aspects of the class. What we’ve been arguing, is that the idea that current SV’s design is a modern realisation of what the initial SV category promoted, in terms of gameplay, that it’s categorically false.

The SV talent category in Vanilla focused on survivability over anything else, in terms of its main theme. The devs have spoken about this several times, how their intent with talent categories back in the day was for each of them to focus on a central overarching aspect of the class as a whole, focusing on ways to improve it. As I’ve said before:

Beast Mastery: This category, its talent focused on improving everything that had to do with our pets, and other bestial aspects. It focused on increasing the survivability of our pets, the damage of our pets, certain pet-specific utility(Intimidation, IRP, etc.), and again, it provided options to improve our bestial aspects(Monkey/Hawk/Cheetah/Pack).

Marksmanship: Its talents focused on improving all aspects of the use of ranged weapons. Better damage, improvements to specific ranged utility(ImprCS, Scatter Shot), along with improved efficiency in terms of mana consumption, CDR, attack range, etc.

Survival: Its talents focused on improving all aspects of our survivability, allowing for a better adaptation to specific situations(content). It improved our tracking capabilities(damage), our defensive options(for both melee and ranged), increased our stamina, bonuses to general class-wide utility such as Feign Death, and more-so, our Traps. It also provided enhancements to our melee-capabilities, talking both utility and damage*.

*Was the purpose of the melee-oriented talents to make you want to intentionally go toe-to-toe with your enemies? Not at all, the purpose was to make us more efficient at dealing with situations where we would find ourselves forced to enter melee range. Why? Because we had hard restrictions put on our ranged weapons, where we could not use them at all when we were closer than 8 yards to an enemy. And in certain types of content(mainly PvP), you were naturally forced to spend more time in melee range of your enemies.

Your fellow MSV-enthusiast ‘Toxik’ more or less put forth the same counter-arguments as you did. He have made it clear that he’s only memeing and trolling me and Bepples, so you’d never know if he actually means anything he says, but since you said these things as well, let’s take an example or two:

you parry in melee

Yes, but they’re still talents designed with the main purpose of improving our survivability. If you remember, the main argument from certain MSV-enthusiasts is that “SV was a melee spec in Vanilla, which is what current SV is based on”. But again, talents that give a higher parry chance would never make you want to intentionally seek out melee range, when the main purpose of the class is to be a damage dealer. Especially in certain types of content where melee can be avoided entirely.

It(talents that increased dodge+parry chance) worked wonders with aspect of the monkey[when combined with abilities like Mongoose Bite and Counterattack].

You[Leokitas] didn’t say this word-for-word, but I assume this is what you meant when you used talents like ‘Deterrence’ and ‘Deflection’ as a basis for your argument.

Like I mentioned above, the issue with this argument is that such abilities were useless in certain parts of the game, that being PvE content in general. In solo-content, the intent was that your pet should do the tanking, while you stood back and fired off ranged attacks. In group-based content, the intent was that your tank should be taking most, if not all(preferably) incoming attacks. And, as such, any abilities you had that relied on the enemy attacking you weren’t useful for pretty much anything at all.

This is why I said that the intent with the SV category in Vanilla wasn’t to make you want to intentionally seek out melee range, and use melee attacks as your primary source of damage. Because, again, the only ability that could be used reliably for damage, while in melee range, was Raptor Strike.

anyone else notice only Bepples types out this much to Larp?

you just did it

you have never been constructive, just delusional. Might as well hold up a sign and say the worlds ending

its the same person G

Bohdai-wyrmrest-accord · January 6, 2023, 4:30am

AAAAAAAAAH my brain arguing over pointless talking points just put it out there on what you like to see fixed and LIKE like minded comments. I still have Zero clue what any of you are arguing over and why anymore. Just put out your bucket lists for Survival. Even if its replacing the right and center with ranged spells i don’t care. Reverting the class to range what would be replaced what would remain. Same with if you like modern survival but need some fixes…what…do…you Suggest?

-plays dead dramatically-

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 4:44am

tldr people cant cope with a change from 7 years ago and I try to make them feel silly for constantly bringing it up. If we can cut out the cope, the forums can be filled with discussion again.

more single target dps and better pet AIs. Bring back counter attack, snake trap, and deterence. I think it would be great that way.

/cast Feign Death

I like you Bohdai, you always make me laugh reading your messages

Syrenta-illidan · January 6, 2023, 4:57am

Lawl Nobody cares about you troll Bepples is right you’re wrong.

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 5:00am

Its kinda hard to do when he does it so well himself

Bohdai-wyrmrest-accord · January 6, 2023, 5:30am

Stop it Elf. Stop mislabing species. He is an Orc his muscles are bigger bust tusks are smaller see different. -slaps Toxitraktors with a long ruler and poke him is face a few time like poking him will make it more evident-

Thank you lol. I never try pretend I’m an expert at hunter but even this Casual Gamer can gauge something not right or lacking and i look towards those passionate about hunter to give…actual feedback so i can evolve my own opinions and support it.

Currently my opinion is Hunter is unnecessarily the hardest class to play in pvp to make up for squishiness. Buts since every class is bursting with CC and Charges let just fix what I’m about to write bellow.

Because of PvP hunter is unnecessary squishy for PVE content. Needs better pet AI and tanking. Pet talenting needs to replace pet families even if its small trees like Azerite armor rings with some choices. And self healing should be a lot stronger we need mending banadages as a pve ability but make the cure bleeds, poisons, and diseases from the target as just a 30% chance to cure and heals for 30% health over 6 sec and no longer need to channel it and the CD should still be 25 sec. other then that All our other defensives should be buffed Survival Of Fittest should be a 1.5min CD and all our 1.5min CD spells reduced to 1.25 min and Born to Be Wild reduces the CD by 20% giving us 1 min CD.

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 5:40am

im a Blood elf

Nobody on the forums are actual experts so you dont have to worry there. The top players for the class know better then to reside here lol

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 5:41am

idk why it hasnt updated. Probably because I change my race every other week or something idk

Bohdai-wyrmrest-accord · January 6, 2023, 5:43am

nope your an anomaly it says error 500 cannont confirm anymore if you are a troll or orc.

-le Gasp-

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 5:47am

hmm I think I broke the forums… FINALLY WE CAN REST

Bohdai-wyrmrest-accord · January 6, 2023, 5:56am

Also every time i suggest Blizz letting Survival us Arcane Shot freely and to integrate into some talents people act like it would drastically change how the class plays that no one would use Mongoose bite anymore and anarchy would ensue and that 15 sec ranged windows are better every 1.5min. But to be honest i think they only thinking of 2v2 and 3v3 because in BG or PVE the thing is having Arcane shot would be more useful because their chaotic nature and fill same role if they make it help trigger Vipers Venom and somehow trigger KC CD resets for Synergy with Quickshot. Along with ranger as a buff and with Synergy with KC using Arcane shot shouldn’t leave the Survival hunter Focus starved once its time to jump into melee and burst damage. Steady damage at ranged and bursty in melee is how i like my survival hunters.

Syrenta-illidan · January 6, 2023, 7:18am

Dude you change races more then most people change the channel. I think you’re a pretty interesting character but man that must cost a bit.

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 7:22am

Bohdai:

Also every time i suggest Blizz letting Survival us Arcane Shot freely and to integrate into some talents people act like it would drastically change how the class plays that no one would use Mongoose bite anymore and anarchy would ensue and that 15 sec ranged windows are better every 1.5min. But to be honest i think they only thinking of 2v2 and 3v3 because in BG or PVE the thing is having Arcane shot would be more useful because their chaotic nature and fill same role if they make it help trigger Vipers Venom and somehow trigger KC CD resets for Synergy with Quickshot. Along with ranger as a buff and with Synergy with KC using Arcane shot shouldn’t leave the Survival hunter Focus starved once its time to jump into melee and burst damage. Steady damage at ranged and bursty in melee is how i like my survival hunters

i still stand with one side of the tree is melee, the middle pet, the right side is ranged. would solve so much grief here. Im getting old, I cant keep this up forever. lol

If you think my hunter changes shock you, I might make you quit the game over how much I change my druid and warrior >.> (my druid has undergone 88 name changes alone, not including faction changing, race changing, gender back when that was a thing)

Syrenta-illidan · January 6, 2023, 7:23am

Yikes dude. Hope you have a stable income! Props for keeping the Xpac’s rolling by single handedly funding them

Toxiktraktør-thrall · January 6, 2023, 7:33am

I make a good living, I dont really spend my money on anything other than WoW or food. At this point I should be in the hall of fame for Blizzard lol

Bohdai-wyrmrest-accord · January 6, 2023, 9:03am

I mean thats not a bad idea but sounds like more work then enable arcane shot with 2h weapons and adding it as a trigger spell to existing spells and effects. Im always type that goes…i see what you did there by why this and id circle Aspect of the Eagle and id be like…and why not this id circle arcane shot that we already have. They really like to put limitations on the class spec that can fight as both ranged and melee and was like ooh too strong must nerf must put time limit on ranged capability.

Leokitas-illidan · January 6, 2023, 1:26pm

It’s not the same person. Bepples level would be updating when he switched characters on the forum if it were.

Bepples-barthilas · January 6, 2023, 2:50pm

He thinks I have a 2nd account…

… as if I would spend that much extra money on this game when I’ve never even bought a WoW token

Bonus: here’s an actual private message from me to Ghorak on MMO champion asking about EU - US forum crossover:

But I guess I cleverly set this up back in May of 2021 in anticipation of someone claiming Ghorak and I are the same person

This sort of thing really has the energy of uploading lazy political/conspiracy videos to Youtube without even googling anything about the topic first. Could you imagine if someone did that? What would that say about their credibility on literally any topic including WoW?

Bohdai-wyrmrest-accord · January 6, 2023, 3:18pm

I thought it was just a meme like saying you both share the same braincell. Ranged Survival returning wouldn’t be worse thing but the arguing without real feedback hurt my brain lol.

Ghorak-laughing-skull · January 6, 2023, 3:40pm

I’ve said it before. Toxik definitely knows that we aren’t the same person. Literally anything he does that is related to the topic of MSV vs RSV, especially when it has to do with me or Bepples, is aimed at memeing/trolling. Pretty ironic considering his arguments that we(those who liked RSV, and who want it back) should “grow up and move on”, even though he spends his time attempting to troll other forum posters.

Anyway…

Bring RSV back, and by all means, keep MSV as well. There wouldn’t be an issue here.