Can we finally get playable the high elves?

[Lightspeêd-proudmoore]

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

If we ask ourselves who is the inheritor of the High elf story? Is it the 99% that left the Alliance a

theres no argument that belfs are the true high elf and alliance high elfs are mostly half elf but i couldnt convince blizz, blood elves, nor the anti-elf people, that we should all be asking for alliance half elves. even had mock ups that talendrion made that had a half elf using human, belf and nelf features. wasnt as cool as blood elf but would not be mistaken for a blood elf. did you see those models?

[Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord]

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

If you’re genuinely a high elf fan you would not care which faction they’re on, you’d just be happy to play as one.

It’s about diversity and options. Denying an established option to half of the player base (if there is any left) is just plain wrong. The Alliance High Elves take nothing away from the fantasy you want to experience.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

Blood elves are by far the the greater successor to the high elves than Alliance High elves will ever be.

This is not a popularity contest, it’s about what people want to play.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

I mean if someone is suggesting, or implying who is the "true"High elf (Like the OP) I certainly wouldn’t point at the group of High elves that made up less a 1% of the original population, or the group that pretty much abandoned their traditions and history to be absorbed into humancentric society.

I can already hear Fenelon lament how numbers don’t matter. If this “”“1%”“” really matter, how do we justify the 0.000025% (or better said, the canon-wise 5-10) Void Elves as an actual player race? Where is the logic behind this? Blizzard does not care for numbers, they fulfill fantasies.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

Saying Alliance High elves are truer High elves for simply keeping their name would be the same argument if a group of Trolls suddenly started calling themselves High elves. They would be the “truer” high elves in a semantic sense alone.

As a matter of fact though Blood Elf-players cannot wear most Quel’dorei vanity items, because they are Alliance-exclusive. On the flipside, the Alliance can however wear Blood Elf-like transmogs from the Sunwell raid and ride the heritage-design based mount. But given that they allow every race to wear everything (Gilneas Noblesuit) to this day, it does not matter in the slightest.

[Tenebrys-gilneas]

@Maderun-wyrmrest-accord

All elves are… kaldorei

all elves…are Trolls

[Lightspeêd-proudmoore]

heres talendrion’s half elf mock ups

female
https://i.imgur.com/IS6yRwj.jpeg
male
https://i.imgur.com/YI82Bkv.png

[Runeleaf-fizzcrank]

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

It’s about diversity and options. Denying an established option to half of the player base (if there is any left) is just plain wrong. The Alliance High Elves take nothing away from the fantasy you want to experience.

It does when players believe that the name “High elf” is somehow an argument that these themes are exclusive, or belong to them despite being nonexistent among the group of High elves they wish to play. Ask people like Drede how they feel about Blood elves getting Farstrider face tattoos, something that simply makes sense for a race they currently belong to. For him and many others these should be exclusive to Alliance High elves, which makes no sense at all.

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

This is not a popularity contest, it’s about what people want to play.

I don’t see what this has to do with popularity? It’s looking at each groups current culture and beliefs. Blood elves still carry out High elven traditions and beliefs, Alliance ones have largely abandoned it.

People can play whatever they want to play, but making a thread claiming a group of High elves somehow have claim to themes they have not practiced or displayed themselves is quite wild.

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

I can already hear Fenelon lament how numbers don’t matter. If this “”“1%”“” really matter, how do we justify the 0.000025% (or better said, the canon-wise 5-10) Void Elves as an actual player race? Where is the logic behind this? Blizzard does not care for numbers, they fulfill fantasies.

What even is this argument? I’m not debating populations as to which one should be playable, but rather if we were to ask which group better represents the opinion and viewpoints of traditional High elves before the culling, the group that made up 99% of the population would certainly be more credible than a fraction population.

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

As a matter of fact though Blood Elf-players cannot wear most Quel’dorei vanity items, because they are Alliance-exclusive.

The only ones that are exclusive to the Alliance are the ones in Dalaran, and that is specifically the group of Alliance High elves we are referring to. I don’t see what point you’re trying to make here.

And notice that these “Quel’dorei” vanity pieces are also largely inspired by humancentric Dalaran themes, where as pieces like the Windchanneler set designed to represent the traditional Quel’dorei rangers is accessible by everyone.

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

On the flipside, the Alliance can however wear Blood Elf-like transmogs from the Sunwell raid and ride the heritage-design based mount.

Players can also make a blue eyed Blood elf Warlock, or a lightforged Warlock or shadow priest. What players can do has nothing to do with the actual story, and it’s implications, it’s a reflection of the game mechanics and limitations to keep the game balanced. You can’t allow a Dreanei to play a Priest, and then not allow them to have access to the Shadow spec even if it doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective.

The request for playable High elves has become increasingly dishonest in my opinion. For years the Helfers argued tooth and nail on the countless creative ways High elves could be implemented to appear “unique” from blood elves and justify their inclusion, heavily focusing on their adoption of humancentric qualities that have shaped their culture.

But since getting the High elf customizations on Void elves and getting their foot in the door that rhetoric has sort of flown out the window. Now it’s a race on how close they can get their “high elves” to look like Blood elves, consistently dipping into traditional High elf themes and forgetting all the arguments they made in the beginning on how “Alliance” High elves differ from Blood elves.

It’d be one thing if they were accepted that these themes would be shared if released (traditional High elven themes like Farstrider tattoos, braids etc) but a large portion of them believe it belongs to them, and them alone as the “true” High elves.

[Lightspeêd-proudmoore]

you tagged me but didnt respond

heres talendrion’s half elf mock ups

female
https://i.imgur.com/IS6yRwj.jpeg
male
https://i.imgur.com/YI82Bkv.png

[Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord]

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

It does when players believe that the name “High elf” is somehow an argument that these themes are exclusive, or belong to them despite being nonexistent among the group of High elves they wish to play.

“Quel’dorei” is an Alliance-term, otherwise you would have access to the Quel’dorei steed mount, as an example. However, people also speak in several terms and it’s pretty clear that people see it from various point of views.

The Alliance High Elves are “exclusive” to the degree, that you cannot access Alliance-cities, which is a big drawing point and reason why they still are called officially High Elves “there”.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

I’m not debating populations as to which one should be playable, but rather if we were to ask which group better represents the opinion and viewpoints of traditional High elves before the culling, the group that made up 99% of the population would certainly be more credible than a fraction population.

You actually brought the 10% up, so you have to expect that the discussion will turn this way and how controversial the inclusion of Void Elves where and they do not justify a race title.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

Now it’s a race on how close they can get their “high elves” to look like Blood elves, consistently dipping into traditional High elf themes and forgetting all the arguments they made in the beginning on how “Alliance” High elves differ from Blood elves.

Of course it is - and it will likely happen within the next decade. Perhaps it needs another sexual lawsuit to get there but given Blizzard’s track record with dramas, it might happen sooner or later.

[Lightspeêd-proudmoore]

argh lol let her answer me first. your posts are so juicy she keeps skipping me to address you

[Anèvay-zuljin]

So what you want is Blood Elves on Alliance.
Who in their right mind wants that?

[Clocklock-laughing-skull]

Figured void elves would get cosmetic option quest for removing void and looking like normal high elves in Midnight. But that’s just me guessing.

[Runeleaf-fizzcrank]

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

“Quel’dorei” is an Alliance-term, otherwise you would have access to the Quel’dorei steed mount, as an example. However, people also speak in several terms and it’s pretty clear that people see it from various point of views.

Quel’dorei is not an alliance term, as there are countless Quel’dorei that are neutral and some that straight out appose the Alliance. Listing off a steed referring to the one group affiliated with the Alliance (and yet still not officially a part of the Alliance) doesn’t make it an alliance term.

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

You actually brought the 10% up, so you have to expect that the discussion will turn this way and how controversial the inclusion of Void Elves where and they do not justify a race title.

Except the context that I brought up the population has nothing to do with the Void elves and whether or not they deserve any title. The context I brought up the population was to point out that 99% of the population of High elves before the attack on Quel’thalas shared the same beliefs and mindset of the playable Blood elves, and that only 1% of High elves (the Alliance High elves) saw things differently. If we ask ourselves which group has stayed true to traditional High elf beliefs it would be the 99% and not the % that abandoned it and didn’t return home with the rest of the High elves.

@Blastkrizzle-wyrmrest-accord

Of course it is - and it will likely happen within the next decade. Perhaps it needs another sexual lawsuit to get there but given Blizzard’s track record with dramas, it might happen sooner or later.

We shall see. I’m optimistic that at least storywise the High elf visual (Blue eyed Elf) is becoming pretty much synonymous with Blood elves to the point where it’s being used often in promotional material and misc NPCs, where as Void elves are still markered with void corruption for the most part.

Who knows which straw will need to break to relinquish the final customizations from the Blood elves.

[Runeleaf-fizzcrank]

Sorry, I thought I responded to yours!

I honestly would like to see the void elves get hairstyles that harken to other Alliance races like the Kul’tirans. (I would die to get female Kul’tiran hairstyles on my elf, they’re so pretty and well-done)

To me it just doesn’t makes sense to give them these old-timey tattoos and braids when their whole distinction is their departure from their past and acclimation into modern Alliance culture and society. Walk through stormwind and High elves are wearing human tunics, and clothes, they wield their weapons and speak common - what makes us believe that one day they would suddenly decide to return to their roots and start painting their faces and braiding their hair again.

Even with that having been said, I do believe that if another customization wave was to pass, and it were to ever include High elf themed customizations they likely would be divied up to both Void elves and Blood elves, but I would imagine we would likely only ever see the customization on Blood elves storywise.

[Lightspeêd-proudmoore]

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

old-timey tattoos and braids

well remember nelfs are their elven kin and they sport old timey markings and braids. as far as i’m concerned, the more braids the better, but i do agree on using alliance hairstyles. it makes sense, with the exception of the gnomish ice cream cone…that one is…well my gnome wore it for classic vanilla and it got on my nerves after a bit but no barber in classic vanilla

i’d be happy with tbc model helfs. just look at this
https://i.imgur.com/FVaJc2G.png

[Runeleaf-fizzcrank]

@Lightspeêd-proudmoore

well remember nelfs are their elven kin and they sport old timey markings and braids. as far as i’m concerned, the more braids the better

Well Night elves are sort of “timeless” which is sort of their schtick. So they’re gonna look pretty much the same, so it makes sense. Night elves have never really modernized themselves.

And I don’t fault people for wanting braids and the tattoos as they are cool aesthetics that play really well into the elf thematic. I wouldn’t want to keep it from them even if it made sense to, but it’s when people turn around and then claim that it’s theirs exclusively with no other argument than “Well High elves used those tats and we’re called High elves so they’re ours.” that bothers me.

@Lightspeêd-proudmoore

i’d be happy with tbc model helfs. just look at this
https://i.imgur.com/FVaJc2G.png

Ugh, don’t remind me please, I loved how my character looked in TBC before they horse-faced us all in the update. The faces were actually super cute back then.

https://i.imgur.com/R36T0wj.png

This face looks way better than the updated one. lol

[Lightspeêd-proudmoore]

yes, heart shaped faces instead of ovals. eyes not always the same distance apart. many different expressions. actual brow bones. wod, the eyebrow is almost an unibrow. i realize they wanted to animate and needed to standardize but being able to grimace doesnt make up for the loss

heres a whole page of them
https://i.imgur.com/6JgQqP9.png

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

The problem is that whenever posts like these are made, they’re hardly ever innocuous requests, and almost always made with a mocking tone toward how “Blood Elves” aren’t High elves, instead of just requesting a certain group of elves they like.

Facts.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

I think I can say that many people would not be bothered if it didn’t always boil down to this concept of “I want to play the real High elves, not those dirty stinky fel elves” every single time it’s mentioned. If the High elves that remained renamed themselves something else, and people could request that group without constantly feeling like they need to imply that Blood Elves somehow have less claim to their own history and background than a group largely known for having abandoned it.

I think this is fair and mostly true at least.

Old Gods can you imagine them renaming themselves something to reflect their people taking a new path or something?

Oh! What if they actually do that alongside the Ren’dorei during this TWW thing? Nah that wouldn’t make sense… Midnight is about all of em coming back together apparently they wouldn’t waste time having them rename themselves… bah.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

That’s the thing, I have nothing against wanting to play the Alliance High elves, heck I play one on Turtle Wow and I love her, but I certainly don’t go around sticking my nose up at Blood elf players telling them how they not actually the “real” High elves every single time the topic is brought up.

So if the debate is asked on who is the truer inheritor of the High elves I would always point out why it’s the Blood elves every single time.

I agree its annoying when folk try to claim Blood Elves are somehow not real or fel tainted or what not… Honestly it just make me think those people don’t know any of their lore… but I do disagree that the “true” inheritor is one or the other.

They’re all from the same stock. They haven’t lost their past or their legacy, even the void elves were blood elves and thus high elves. That legacy, regardless of their political or, in the case of void elves, their physical changes doesn’t erase that.

To what you were actually referring to when I butted in though, thats fair. Claiming the Alliance High Elves are the “true” inheritor as though the Blood Elves have no right is foolishness.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

Elisande is not speaking to only Vareesa, she’s speaking to the group in its entirety like she had with the Night elves and Blood elves. She’s not looking to just make a dig at Vareesa to be mean to her, she’s ridiculing them all.

No, shes speaking to all of the leaders present and making digs at each of them in turn that she knows will rile them up.

Vereesa’s was more personal, but that Blizzards writing being stupid more than anything. Blizzard was not trying to suggest that the Dalaran High Elves have become half elves by any means. Otherwise they’d have shown us that a lot more than one member’s twins.

@Runeleaf-fizzcrank

The reason why they don’t have many Half elves was explained by Vareesa herself, who stated that High elves seldom give birth, and even moreso with twins.

The reason is that they don’t happen often at all in the lore. They’re rare. The Elven birthrate is not really involved. Thats a constant of elves.

[Quivermethis-rexxar]

Yup the snowball lore people like to ignore when they shout velves and belves arent helves.
Like oh you want some detailed lore? Lol

[Silpher-malganis]

Sadly high elves being playable went away when they added in VE.

Best we can hope is the archaic class/race combo system either gets lightened up or goes away. I miss being in the alliance so much.

I also find it funny they made the argument that there wasn’t enough HE for a player race, then add in a race with literally 3% of the population that high elves currently have.

[Tenebrys-gilneas]

no-one, the alliance lost their chance in wc3

[Runeleaf-fizzcrank]

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

I agree its annoying when folk try to claim Blood Elves are somehow not real or fel tainted or what not… Honestly it just make me think those people don’t know any of their lore… but I do disagree that the “true” inheritor is one or the other.

I mean I’m not claiming they don’t have any claim, but it’s just strange to me when people make posts like this claiming that they have the “true” or “Exclusive” claim with no argument beyond that they never changed their name. Look at the Goblin poster, all her evidence were named items, and titles but had absolutely nothing to do with them actually harkening to their past as High elves, but rather embracing humancentric life.

So maybe “true” isn’t the right word, it’s just the one used by the OP so I was repeating it. I’d say they have a stronger claim is all, since the Blood Elves are the ones still actively upholding High elven traditions and culture while the Alliance High elves have largely abandoned it.

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

No, shes speaking to all of the leaders present and making digs at each of them in turn that she knows will rile them up.

Eh, her criticism didn’t seem pointed specifically at Vareesa, nor the other leaders by her choice of words. (As they’re all pretty much guilty of what she’s criticizing them over.) While Vareesa is guilty of the things she mentioned, I believe that was merely because she designed to represents a demographic of elves to the players. It seems more reasonable that the purpose of this scene was to summarize the behaviors of each elf race to the players (especially new ones) so that they could get a better understanding of the overall story and what sets apart each of these Elf races before moving forward.

The other option is that she just took that moment to roast specific elves, which isn’t really as compelling, and sort of random.

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

Vereesa’s was more personal, but that Blizzards writing being stupid more than anything. Blizzard was not trying to suggest that the Dalaran High Elves have become half elves by any means. Otherwise they’d have shown us that a lot more than one member’s twins.

Well according to Vareesa High elves seldom give birth in the first place, so even if Alliance High elves were only procreating with humans we wouldn’t be seeing them very often, and since half-elves pretty much look identical to normal elves we wouldn’t really know who was a half-elf unless it was pertinent to the story. Plus, we haven’t really had any stories focusing on High elves so there hasn’t really been an opportunity to explore that yet.

I believe Elisande was pointing out that by mingling and relying on lesser races they have lowered themselves and diluted their bloodlines. She addresses them all in the end, claiming that they are unworthy of the name “High elves” which is plural, meaning she is addressing everyone.

While I’m not saying that you’re wrong, I do believe asserting otherwise is conjecture unless at some point we see her address Vareesa directly over it. So while I have no problem bringing it up as a possible alternative, I wouldn’t try correcting others on it as the wording is pretty clearly addressing everyone.

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

The reason is that they don’t happen often at all in the lore. They’re rare. The Elven birthrate is not really involved. Thats a constant of elves.

Yes but Vareesa specifically points out that “High elves” seldom give birth, which leads me to believe that this is unique to her demographic, and not Thalassian elves overall, as I believe the Blood elf population has recovered significantly since TBC while High elf numbers have remained substantially low.

Generally when an NPC uses a races name specifically, its not coincidental, but purposely done to storybuild.